1. Expert Q&A: Protecting a person with dementia from financial abuse - Weds 26 June, 3:30-4:30 pm

    Financial abuse can have serious consequences for a person with dementia. Find out how to protect a person with dementia from financial abuse.

    Sam, our Knowledge Officer (Legal and Welfare Rights) is our expert on this topic. She will be here to answer your questions on Wednesday 26 June between 3:30 - 4:30 pm.

    You can either post questions >here< or email them to us at talkingpoint@alzheimers.org.uk and we'll answer as many as we can on the day.

  1. tatty

    tatty Registered User

    Oct 14, 2015
    61
    MIL has been at SIL and BIL for a month for birthday/Christmas , they have got her state pension(only one) and AA whilst there with MIL giving the 4 of them £30 each for xmas pressies and an unknown amount towards turkey at her request. However on return yesterday when OH met SIL (OH sister/ MIL daughter) in localish town in Costa for handover OH sister said she had stopped off that morning at 9am on her way (they live 2hours plus form rendezvous) toget out MIL's pension, OH though bit odd as usuually a Monday for pension but it was bank holiday, he looked quizzical as to why she would bother to get MILpension as she was returning that morning, SIL explained she needed the money' to pay mum's bills when with us'.......?.?? OH wasn't happy but didn't want to make a fuss as MIL sister had met up in Costa too....SIL said ' oh rest of money is in mum's purse.'

    When OH and MIL got home MIL hair looked like a scarecrow , no money spent there then , :confused:so I booked our hairdresser to come today, MIL always frets about payment and likes to give 'her cash' so I looked in MIL purse 60p in coppers nothing else,so I said to OH shall I get your mum's pension when I pop to Tescos so she can give bairdresser cash .... OH then told me about SIL conversation but was adamant she had said rest of cash was in his mum's purse so we checked purse, handbag, packed clothes , present bag no money, text SIL .... no reply. we tried to fathom what bills MIL could have. papers? no else but where is all rest as MIL?doesn't get any more pension until next Monday.

    OH rang SIL/his sister twho siad she had 'forgot' to put moeny in MIL purse and said MiL owed for a paper bill , which can be no more than £25 , agreed to send 'some money' in a cheque to MIL ....... MIl would of got nothing if we hadn't queried it , OH and me as main carers have POA, they do not as MIL was adamant BIL was not to know her financial affairs , feel like it is theft?? will I be unreasonable to ask for a receipt for alleged bills!!? (excluding this weeks pension , MIL has 'got through" over £1000 whislt visiting SiL) neither us or them are on the breadline but they don't seem to seeits not their or ours moeny its MIL, my low opinion of them has got lower:mad:

    SIL has agreed to send 'some money' with bills deducted, await to see how much...
     
  2. fizzie

    fizzie Registered User

    Jul 20, 2011
    2,740
    People are really wicked aren't they? It makes me feel really ill. Thank goodness she has you. I'm afraid I wouldn't be able to keep my mouth shut - it really is theft!
     
  3. Kazza-72

    Kazza-72 Registered User

    Dec 15, 2015
    61
    Chiswick, London
    Sounds like SIL is taking advantage of your MIL. My brothers wife did the same to the tune of around £10K and nothing to show for it. People can be despicable can't they


    Sent from my iPad using Talking Point
     
  4. Emac

    Emac Registered User

    Mar 2, 2013
    171
    I am with fizzie. They are clearly 'at it' and need to be asked to account for the money they have taken, perhaps they think they are due payment for having her over Christmas or feel that you are somehow benefiting financially from the current arrangement. Either way this clearly needs a frank conversation as they have not left her with enough pension to pay for her needs this week. I m annoyed on your behalf!:mad:
     
  5. tatty

    tatty Registered User

    Oct 14, 2015
    61
    Agree Fizzie, I was apoplectic with rage, having pension paid directly into MIL bank account asap rather than PO account and will ask MlL how much she wants to take to SIL next visit , if there is one.....and any other expenses they incurr they will have to keep receipts and MIL via us with POA will reimburse them, feel they won't be so keen on MIL visits.... so many things over the years I've taken very deep breaths about but this have broken the camels back.
     
  6. Sue J

    Sue J Registered User

    Dec 9, 2009
    8,042
    Not at all, you can simply say it is a legal requirement when holding POA, I'd be livid too, how dare they:mad:
     
  7. fizzie

    fizzie Registered User

    Jul 20, 2011
    2,740
    I would have a frank conversation with them and just say that they have left her without enough money to cover her own basic needs and that the money has to be accounted for by law and so could they please send detailed receipts of exactly how much was spent, on what and that you will only pay what her costs are, not what it costs to feed the rest of the family. I would question bills - don't they heat the house or turn the water on when she isn't there? But actually I would ask for the copy of the quarters bill and then work out exactly what her share is and refuse to pay one single penny more than that - they have been very cruel - just imagine if she had to live with them permanently - shudders.

    Feel so sorry for you and your OH and mostly for poor wee Mum xxx
     
  8. sleepless

    sleepless Registered User

    Feb 19, 2010
    3,232
    Female
    The Sweet North
    It sounds to me as though your Mil paid for their Christmas.
    Dreadful.
     
  9. tatty

    tatty Registered User

    Oct 14, 2015
    61
    Thanks all for the replies , I am sad to say you are all right , I will be following your advice Fizzie, now to master keeping a civil tongue:D:confused::eek:
     
  10. middlemiss

    middlemiss Registered User

    Apr 27, 2014
    24
    I agree with Fizzie, definitely ask for receipts and an account of every penny spent. If the Office of the public Guardian audits finances - you are accountable as you have POA - where is your proof of money spent? If they don't provide within a reasonable time (give them a date), report them to the OPG. They should investigate financial abuse, you will need evidence such as bank statements etc. Good luck x
     
  11. Mrsbusy

    Mrsbusy Registered User

    Aug 15, 2015
    356
    Just a quick word of advice, keep an eye on her statements as they now have her debit card number so may use it online etc. probably best to block the card, tell the ban it's lost/stolen. If you tell them relatives may have card details they won't reimburse you with any payments made without her knowledge.

    She's lucky to have you to keep an eye on things for her.
     
  12. Katrine

    Katrine Registered User

    Jan 20, 2011
    2,852
    England
    I don't need to do it very often now as MIL is in a CH, but I used to keep a running tally in a draft email of everything I bought, including postage, hospital car parking charges, groceries, clothes, vet's fees, repair bills, etc. Then once a month I emailed this as 'My latest bill for Mum - month - year' to OH who has POA for his mum. I would give him receipts for any large purchases. OH would then transfer the money owed to me by online banking. He has copies of these emails saved.

    Ask your BIL and SIL to itemise the expenditure on MIL as follows:
    £? per week for groceries, utilities, telephone
    £? Extra fuel costs
    £? Newspapers and magazines (for her use)
    £? Toiletries, personal items (for her use)
    £? Christmas cards and postage
    £? Christmas presents to x,y,z, etc.
    £? Café meals, cinema etc.

    You will be able to see how much was drawn out. Whatever they cannot account for must be refunded. If they refuse, then let them know you will be using the value of next year's Christmas and birthday presents to them as part payment of the outstanding amount. :rolleyes:

    It is difficult to play hardball the first time, but it gets easier once you prevent other relatives from being able to draw out her money. It's best to get things back on a controlled footing where it is clear that the person with POA is in charge and other people have to work to the standards set for them by the Attorney.

    We had an awkward situation when SIL asked OH to repay quite a large sum which she said she had loaned to her mother some years ago. OH asked her for the signed paperwork, but of course there wasn't any. SIL should have told her brother when the loan was made, even though her mum said at the time "Nobody else needs to know, it's just between us". The reason why she didn't tell him was not because she is dishonest in any way; it was because she resented him having POA when she did not. OH did repay SIL, but he made her sign a letter giving chapter and verse as to what it was all about. And that's not being nasty, it's about operating with integrity and making sure you can account fully to OPG if asked to do so.
     
  13. Onlyme

    Onlyme Registered User

    Apr 5, 2010
    4,999
    UK
    #13 Onlyme, Dec 31, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2015
    Watch the there aren't any cheques missing from her cheque book. I would report that missing to which will stop any cheque taken out of her book nearer the back being cashed in the future.
     
  14. tatty

    tatty Registered User

    Oct 14, 2015
    61
    Fortunately I have never trusted them and so I always make sure MIL never takes her cheque book with her nor do they have or ever had her bank card or savings book, it is the PO card with pension only in along with AA though this is her only source of income...so there is a finite amount available each week she stays hence why they took this weeks pension as they could not get MIL to write cheques , suspicius as SIL had specifically requested that OH made sure mum brought her cheque book..... I took book out of her bags and put in back in her draw before she went..:p think I need to ensure I keep better records too as as got out cash each week life in laws always did it from PO not same paper trail as if bank acc dds or transaction ,niceman from DWP sent us the form to have pension into b/acc which came today so will send that back pronto and there is NOWAY they are getting the bank card as bank let alone O P G would be on my back and god know what they would take then.

    I await the alleged cheque thats in the post and what they include as justification for taking this weeks pension then askfor wheree all the money went...OH s wanted tobelieve Ssiter was a better person, think he accepts now what he has always known:(
     
  15. Risa

    Risa Registered User

    Apr 13, 2015
    483
    Essex
    Wow for that price I would have expected a stay in a Holiday Inn or similar, not someone's home! Totally reasonable to ask for receipts as it is a lot to spend in 1 month. Sounds like they have treated her as a lodger rather than a visiting relative to have come up with a sum like that :eek:
     
  16. tatty

    tatty Registered User

    Oct 14, 2015
    61
    UPDATe

    Cheque arrived from SIL for MIL stating it was for 'money we forgot to put in your purse' less 'bills for papers etc'. cheque for £60 more than £100 for papers and mistery 'etc' in a week she was back here for! Told OH he has got to ask for bills..... he is a bit reluctant, I think he is worried they won't have MIL to stay again ....they might but I doubt it... if he doesn't I will and he really really doesn't want me to do that as I won't be using my diplomacy skills if I do:mad:
     
  17. fizzie

    fizzie Registered User

    Jul 20, 2011
    2,740
    To be honest if they are going to rip you off for that kind of money it might be as cheap to have her respite nearer to your home then you won't have to rely on them. I wonder how they treat her when she is there?

    It is hard for you because it is MiL but you are so kind to her and clearly love her dearly and don't want to have her ripped off or upset. Does she like staying with them?
     
  18. tatty

    tatty Registered User

    Oct 14, 2015
    61
    Yes respite is a good point, she likes seeing her granddaughters but never been keen on BIL used to be more negative doesn't say much now either way, they take her out cos SIL doesn't work but it appears (I may be wrong) that they 'go for a coffee ' very often which MIL seems to fund?

    Funny as on the very rare and short visits to SIL when FIL was still alive they hardly ever took them anywhere from what a very with it FIL used to say and had them there for days rather than longer but of course FIL and MIL where in charge of their
    own finances then and though generous they weren't frivilous.

    Think I will keep note they sent as evidence for OPG and they SIL/BIL can explain if and when required.:D:
     

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