1. Meercat

    Meercat Registered User

    Aug 13, 2010
    545
    M passed away 2 months ago. We believe she re-wrote her Will when she had Dementia. She did go to a solicitor & chose executors. Are family allowed to know the contents of the Will & if so when? I am concerned she may have changed her Will when not able to understand a family situation & may have removed my sister from receiving a share and given it to a person who 'befriended' her in recent years. What is the protocol in such a situation?
     
  2. Kevinl

    Kevinl Registered User

    Aug 24, 2013
    4,781
    Salford
    Once probate has been granted you can get a copy from here
    https://www.gov.uk/wills-probate-inheritance/searching-for-probate-records
    Or put in a standing search for the next 6 months. Probate normally takes about 6 weeks to get.

    All the AZ fact sheet says is "It is still possible to make or change a will after a diagnosis of dementia, as long as the person can show that they understand the decision they are making, and the implications that any changes will have. A solicitor can help with making or updating a will."

    How it all works I'm not sure. If she was able to convince a solicitor she understood what she was doing then that appears to be all it takes to make it legal, hardly very scientific.
    K
     
  3. Meercat

    Meercat Registered User

    Aug 13, 2010
    545
    Goodness, Thankyou Kevinl.
    My M would have been very convincing.

    Does this mean the executor can distribute the estate before family know how things were split?

    If I do get something I will want to give some to my sister - how does that work out with inheritance tax etc?
     
  4. Kevinl

    Kevinl Registered User

    Aug 24, 2013
    4,781
    Salford
    They'd have to go some to distribute the estate before you could find out what the will said, they can't move before they get probate and once they have you could find out pretty quickly what the will said if you put a tracker on. They'll be a house to sell (possibly) bank accounts to close (which takes a while, they want copies of all the documents and drag their feet a lot) other assets like insurance policies to sort out, it can take ages.
    Re your sister's share: If you can get everyone to agree you could do a deed of variance to the will, effectively re-writing it so half of your share goes to your sister (for example), but this involves lawyers and costs money. Easier would be to give it to her as a gift and unless you die in the next 7 years and you have assets over £325,000 (or double that if you inherited money/property from your late husband, should he exist and have died before you) then there is no inheritance tax implication. If you're madly rich and the amounts involved are huge then get legal advise, but if; you, your partner and your sister aren't worth a million pounds combined then you should be OK for IHT.
    K
    https://www.gov.uk/inheritance-tax/overview
     
  5. Chemmy

    Chemmy Registered User

    Nov 7, 2011
    7,592
    Yorkshire
    #5 Chemmy, May 24, 2015
    Last edited: May 24, 2015
    I drew up a deed of variation myself to pass some of my mums money straight to my children.

    I filled in the checklist

    https://www.gov.uk/alter-a-will-after-a-death

    And have kept that with a copy of the signed deed (witnessed by a neighbour)

    I drew up my own based on a sample copy found on the web such as

    http://www.accountingweb.co.uk/anyanswers/question/can-i-draw-simple-deed-variation-myself

    Admittedly, as sole beneficiary, this was a simple procedure. I just wrote each of them a cheque once probate had been granted.

    Just found this article which explains it rather well
    http://www.saga.co.uk/saga-magazine/2014/september/deed-of-variation-a-case-study.aspx
     
  6. Meercat

    Meercat Registered User

    Aug 13, 2010
    545
    Thanks Chemmy & Kevinl - that's really helpful as I didn't know you could do a 'deed of variation'. Quite clearly I'm going to have to do a lot of reading up on this.

    I am not an only child, so my situation is different, but do you know whether I can set up a 'deed of variance' solely from my share of the estate - meaning we can avoid asking the other siblings to 'contribute'. Also can it be written to include money to go to the grandchildren, as we suspect they've been written out the will M wrote when she had dementia too?
     
  7. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    19,024
    Male
    North Manchester
    "...but do you know whether I can set up a 'deed of variance' solely from my share of the estate - meaning we can avoid asking the other siblings to 'contribute'...."

    The deed only needs signing by beneficiaries who will be disadvantaged by the change(s), so, yes you can.

    Unless your inheritance is likely to put your total assets over £325k (or more if you have inherited some or all of a deceased spouse or civil partner allowance) there is no point in a deed, just give the money away.
     
  8. Kevinl

    Kevinl Registered User

    Aug 24, 2013
    4,781
    Salford
    You can word the deed of variation how you like, if it says "all my property is to be split equally between my 3 children" you could change it to "33% to children A & B and 33% to be split equally between child C and her grandchildren" (assuming you're child C). Or indeed any other distribution as long as the other beneficiaries agree and as it's costing them nothing why wouldn't they.
    K
     
  9. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    19,024
    Male
    North Manchester
    "... Also can it be written to include money to go to the grandchildren,..."

    If any of the grandchildren are under 18 and you make a deed of variation a trust fund will have to be set up to administer the funds until the child becomes 18.

    A straight forward gift does not have this restriction.
     
  10. Meercat

    Meercat Registered User

    Aug 13, 2010
    545
    Thanks Nitram.
    When you say total assets does that include the house we live in or just our savings?

    This is getting to be quite complex, as my partner would not want to allow our children instant access to 11% of the estate (11% to me(child C), 11% grandchild a, 11% grandchild b) perhaps we just gift them what we think is appropriate, put some in trust/bond and if it's over the threshold just put up with tax if I die within 7 years?!!

    Thanks for patience with answers on what is a sensitive issue, I'm aware this forum is more to do with grief etc but I didn't know where to post.
    Don't get me wrong, I am sorry M has died, but I did much of my crying etc when she was ill. Dementia took away the lady we loved a long time ago.

    As for her estate - we actually don't want/need it - I'd prefer to have back my friend and M- she will no doubt have the last laugh as I have a suspicion all the family have been written out of the will and the local Donkey Sanctuary are going to think all their Christmases have come at once!!!!

    Thanks all,
    Meercat
     
  11. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    19,024
    Male
    North Manchester
    #11 nitram, May 24, 2015
    Last edited: May 24, 2015
    "When you say total assets does that include the house we live in or just our savings?"

    Total assets, house and savings.
    If you have a spouse or civil partner and one of you dies any unused allowance is transferred to the survivor giving them an allowance of up to £650k
    If you died first your £325k would be reduced by all non exempt transfers.
    The value of potentially exempt transfers reduces to zero on a sliding scale between the third and seventh year.
    Transfer in any year can be back dated to use any exempt allowance not used in the previous year.

    EDIT
    Gifts to your children over 18 will have no income tax implications, gifts are not counted as earnings.
    If you have children under 18 there will tax implications.
    Don't give funds to your children to pass on to any grandchildren under 18 as this will have tax implications, if you give the funds direct to the under age grandchildren there will not be any tax implications.
     
  12. Chemmy

    Chemmy Registered User

    Nov 7, 2011
    7,592
    Yorkshire
    My children were 28 and 30 when I transferred the money. One was married, one about to be. I don't think I would have passed the money on if they were footloose and single. I wouldn't have wanted it to finance a gap year, for instance. Mum and Dad's years of prudence deserved more respect than that.

    However, if either marriage breaks down, then half of what they received will effectively belomg to their spouse, so that's something to consider too.

    Gifting it in smaller chunks over the next few years is another option.
     
  13. jugglingmum

    jugglingmum Registered User

    Jan 5, 2014
    5,178
    Female
    Chester
    The thing often missed with IHT is that they go back 14 years, and look at gifts in that period on a rolling 7 year basis.

    This will only affect large sums so you should be able to afford to take appropriate financial advice, but may be an issue if you have a house in the SE as values can be high.

    If you gift £100k 8 years before death and £300k 6 years before death, and balance of estate goes to spouse, the £300k would be caught as combined with the £100k it is over the £325k limit within a 7 year rolling period. Very complicated and only a very brief explanation.

    Any gifts out of 'spare' income are ignored completely - so if you have £20k of income and only need £10k to live on and give £10k away that is not a capital gift so doesn't count in the gifts limit. I get clients to record the fact that it is a gift out of income and they have sufficient income for their needs in a letter to the donee. A second rule relates to regular gifts that are for the donee's day to day living needs.
     
  14. Kevinl

    Kevinl Registered User

    Aug 24, 2013
    4,781
    Salford
    Unless you're "talking telephone numbers" with the amounts involved I'd keep it simple. Buy Premium Bonds if the name of each of the children involved, you can buy up to £40,000 it's 100% safe, the government own it, you get all your money back and any prizes you do win are a bonus and the whole lot is tax free.
    So far this year (and I have been luck) I've won something approaching double what I would get in any other investment like an ISA or on deposit with a bank.
    You could pool all the wins and then split them each Christmas as an on going present from M to them all.
    K
     
  15. Meercat

    Meercat Registered User

    Aug 13, 2010
    545
    Thanks everyone for your advice.
    I love the Premium Bond idea, Kevinl.
    We're definitely going to have to seek financial advice, jugglingmum, as I'm also concerned that if the money is left in 1 account, it isn't safe if the bank goes 'down the tubes'. Am I right in saying it's OK up to £85,000? Also if it's in a current account ( these seem to have highest interest at the moment) it's at higher risk as someone could access it easier via bank debit card (if it was lost).
    Nitram & Chemmy you've both given me food for thought and from your advice I shall create a list of questions before we see a financial advisor.


    With regard to financial advice what should I be looking for? I have never used one and feel vulnerable passing over all out private details?
     
  16. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    19,024
    Male
    North Manchester
    The limit for full protection for any bank is £85k, £170k for a joint account.
    Be careful though e.g Halifax and LLoyds are the same bank.

    The higher interest rates on current accounts require conditions to be met and are also only up to a certain balance. Typical conditions are things like a minimum number of direct debits and also regular funding, these can quite often be met by 'bouncing' cash between banks by setting up monthly transfers, you have to examine the details. That said, have a look at Santander 123, 3% up to £20k, monthly fee £2, £500/mth funding, 2 direct debits with cash back for some.

    Loosing a debit card should not cause too much problem, the PIN is not known to anybody else, 'unusual activities' will be blocked and you can report it's lose putting a stop on it's use.

    Financial advisers have to know your financial details and your attitude to risk before they can give any advice. You may not need them, in round terms what are you talking about - thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands?
     
  17. Meercat

    Meercat Registered User

    Aug 13, 2010
    545
    Nitram, I've pm'ed you
    Thanks
    Meercat
     
  18. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    19,024
    Male
    North Manchester
    I've replied
     
  19. WIFE

    WIFE Registered User

    May 23, 2014
    857
    WEST SUSSEX
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.