1. Michael E

    Michael E Registered User

    Apr 14, 2005
    619
    Male
    Ronda Spain
    Just sort of reviewing my options... all a bit scary.

    How does the UK social security system work?

    With a married couple is it the 'joint resources' that are 'means tested' for payment for a 'care home' or is it just the personal means of the one who is ill? If for example a house and income were just in my name and almost nothing in Monique's name - would they require me to pay the full amount of the care home?

    Do the SS pay for private care homes or only national health care homes?

    If the latter what are they like?

    Thanks

    Michael
     
  2. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,438
    Hi Michael

    I think you're going to need specialised advice, because you would be a returning UK national and, I assume, Monique is a French national. I do know if I returned to the UK there would be a variety of waiting times to qualify for various services, but I'm of course not returning from the EU, so that might well be different.

    If the fact that you were not a retunring UK national were discounted, theoretically only Moniques sole savings plus income, plus 1/2 of joint savings would be used for the means testing. However, I think you'd have to assume that before any LA would cough up funds they would do some serious checking to make sure that the house and the income really were yours (rather than yours and Moniques) Not that the house should make any difference: properties lived in by the stay at home spouse are disregarded.

    The last point: there aren't many LA authority run homes anymore, although that depends on area, so when the LA picks up the bill, it's for private homes. Having said that though 2 points to remember. 1) LA's often get a bulk rate for a home that you wouldn't get (case in point my mother pays £600 a week - the LA pay the same home for the same rooms £450, and the home accepts that) and 2) in some areas of the country the LA allowance is insufficient for many homes and the family are expected to pay "top-up" fees.

    Jennifer
     
  3. Skye

    Skye Registered User

    Aug 29, 2006
    17,000
    SW Scotland
    Hi Michael

    I'm not an expert, and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I'm aware the value of the marital home is disregarded as long as you are living in it, even if it is in joint names.

    I believe yor income would also be disregarded, it would be the value of savings that would be taken into account. If they were all in your name, that would also be disregarded, but you would have to be careful not to take joint assets and put them into your own name.

    As far as I know, most if not all NHs take both funded and non-funded patients, and there should be no difference in the treatment received. So if you find one you like you would need to have a financial assessment to determine what level of help would be available

    Cheers,
     
  4. CraigC

    CraigC Registered User

    Mar 21, 2003
    6,630
    London
    Hi Michael,

    It may be worth pondering the following factsheets....

    http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/Caring...idential_and_nursing_care/info_payingfees.htm

    http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/Caring...tial_and_nursing_care/info_localauthority.htm

    Funding for care has got to be one of the most complicated financial areas that I've come across. Whatever advice you get (and there are a lot of members with lots of first hand experience), please also get some professional advice (e.g. call the alzheimer's helpline).

    The problem is that many local authories work slightly differently. The social services should still pay for a private home care home if you assets fall bellow a certain level (see the factsheet) but they may only pay a certain percentage (they normally have a weekly limit) so relatives may need to pay a top up. Again, I've had different answers from different local authorities on this issue.

    Many private homes seem to be tied into keeping a couple of places free for local authority use. However, I've also come across private homes that will ask residents to move when the money runs out, ask residents to move to smaller rooms when the money runs out and some that will only take self funded residents in the first place. There seems to be little clarity in this area.

    The quality of all care homes and quality of care in care homes varies, whether the home is run by the local authority funded, a private firm or charity. I think it is very dangerous to generalise, but that is just my opinion.

    Kind Regards
    Craig
     
  5. Michael E

    Michael E Registered User

    Apr 14, 2005
    619
    Male
    Ronda Spain
    Jennifer, Hazel, Craig, thank you for your info.... Very helpful and enlightening..

    the fact sheets are interesting and the possible financial solution, I thought I might have found, does not really seem viable, without definitive policy statements and is probably not worth the risk...

    The cost of specialist care homes here in France has increased 20% in the last 12 months to around £25,000 a year... Just hope such huge leaps will not occur too often in the future. This increase brings the costs of care homes in France much closer to the UK cost and so I was wondering if it would be worth returning to the UK if things got too difficult/costly here...

    Many thanks again

    Michael
     
  6. May

    May Registered User

    Oct 15, 2005
    627
    Yorkshire
    #6 May, Jun 20, 2007
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2007
    Hi Michael

    My Mum moved into a nursing home in March. She is funded by the local authority, a quick financial breakdown. All of her state pension bar £20.50 ( known as spending money...!) per week goes to her care, this then is 'topped up' by LA to cost of the home which is £465.00 per week, PLUS a top up fee of £16 per week, which cannot be paid by the person themselves but must be paid by a family member. Total £22320.00 per year plus top up cost of £672.00. which is pretty close to the cost in France, but I believe that this cost is low compared to some parts of the U.K. As to financial assessment this is based on the person's income, pensions etc and any savings ( in my parents case this is half of what they have in their joint account) including interest accrueing, plus any property in their name, however if their husband or wife who is the carer shares ownership of the property and resides there this is not included in the financial assessment. All the above information given from personal experience only, it may be different in other areas. This seems to be a minefield designed to trap the unwary.........:(

    Edited to add, if a person has over £21500.00 in savings they will be self funding and then it is a sliding scale down to about £8000.00 (not certain on that figure) when LA funding kicks in.
    Also did not come across ANY LA homes when looking for Mum.
     
  7. Cate

    Cate Registered User

    Jul 2, 2006
    1,370
    Newport, Gwent
    Hi May

    Thanks for that information. The cost of mum's NH is £467 per week. Social Services are currently paying, but we have just sold mum's home, so she will be paying them back what they have paid so far since last September. Mum will then be self funding until the profit of the sale of her home is gone all but the 8K. The only difference being, the cost when LA funded is £385 per week.

    There I am telling her every week, cos she's over 80 it free:eek:

    Best wishes

    Cate
     
  8. CraigC

    CraigC Registered User

    Mar 21, 2003
    6,630
    London
    Hi Cate and may,

    Intriguing! I'm picking up lots of useful information from this thread myself. Thanks for posting everyone.

    Dads care is £630 per week and mums £940 per week. As they are both in care, their home gets sold to pay the fees in full. But we are based just outside london so things are a bit more expensive.

    What I always find really intriguing is the difference in fees for self funded and local authority funded individuals. The local authority gets such a better deal for exactly the same service. Never worked it out myself.

    There are also other things to consider Michael, like nursing fees and if you qualify for NHS Continuing Care.

    That is also my experience.

    Kind Regards
    Craig
     
  9. noelphobic

    noelphobic Registered User

    Feb 24, 2006
    3,452
    Liverpool
    I think the lower figure is actually £12500. There are also no longer any LA homes in our area, apart from one that just does respite. The LA home my mum used to go to for respite closed down about 2 years ago but I read in the local paper that a private company is taking it over and it will reopen as a private care home.
     
  10. Cate

    Cate Registered User

    Jul 2, 2006
    1,370
    Newport, Gwent
    Hi Craig and Noelphobic

    Thanks for the update in information. I get a headache when I think of this particular mine field.

    At the time of mum moving to the NH we were just about hanging on by our finger nails with the day to day caring and stress of mum’s deterioration and the very unsafe things she was doing. The upshot being we gave little consideration to this side of things, we just wanted her safe. We did however get the ‘all clear’ from Social Services so the fees are being paid while the sale goes through, and we have got assurances when her money runs out, they will pay for her.

    When we started getting Land Registry forms to sign we started to feel very out of our depth, and of course wanted to make sure we were acting in mum's best interest, we passed everything over to a solicitor who specialises in this kind of thing. It then came to light mum should have had an NHS assessment. This took 8 months to happen following mum’s move, with one particular unhelpful employee of the LHB telling me it must have happened before mum moved! No Mrs Stoppy Boots it didn’t. We are still waiting for a copy of the report, over a month now.

    I really don’t think I will ever get my head around the issue of NHS funding. My interpretation is that funding is given if a person requires physical nursing procedures on a regular basis throughout a 24 hour period.

    Where as my mum, who has AD and cannot function without care, but in the eyes of the NHS can live on her own and look after herself no problem. Because in my view, that’s what they are saying when they say she is not entitled to NHS funding, which we feel 99.9% sure is what they are going to say. But at least we feel we did out best for mum.

    Best wishes to all.

    Cate
     
  11. Catey

    Catey Registered User

    Jun 14, 2007
    9
    South Bucks
    We are looking for a new home for mum and have had quite a revelation today over funding. Have looked at four homes over the last two days with varying costs - £790, £900, £1050 and £1250 per week. Only the £1250 one said that when mum's money runs out that the balance after the la authority contribution would have to be made up by family members or she would be chucked out. All the others said that she would move over to la funding at a rate that would be negotiated with the la.

    Obvious to me that privately funded residents are subsidising la ones. (Not complaining about that by the way).

    So, we now realise that mum can go to the very best care home, provided that we make sure they will transfer over to the la once her money runs out. At the moment the £900 one seems the best and her money will last for about four years. So, instead of looking around for something that she can afford until the day she dies (forecast as best we can), she can go to the best and the la can pick up the tab later.

    Daft innit ! Much better to give everyone an allowance to cover care costs (which they should get with a terminal illness) and then let them spend their money on housing costs. Would probably even out in the end.
     
  12. Cate

    Cate Registered User

    Jul 2, 2006
    1,370
    Newport, Gwent
    Hi Catey

    You must be feeling a bit relieved now that you know your options.

    Daft innit ! Much better to give everyone an allowance to cover care costs (which they should get with a terminal illness) and then let them spend their money on housing costs. Would probably even out in the end.

    Way to sensible and logic for any government:eek:

    Please keep posting and letting us know how you are doing.

    Love

    Cate
     
  13. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    10,824
    london

    I have not heard the whole story on the news Only that a woman with Alzheimer's is taking a privet care to the court of human rights because they want to chuck her out.

    Does anyone no any more on that story ?
     
  14. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,438

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