1. Expert Q&A: Protecting a person with dementia from financial abuse - Weds 26 June, 3:30-4:30 pm

    Financial abuse can have serious consequences for a person with dementia. Find out how to protect a person with dementia from financial abuse.

    Sam, our Knowledge Officer (Legal and Welfare Rights) is our expert on this topic. She will be here to answer your questions on Wednesday 26 June between 3:30 - 4:30 pm.

    You can either post questions >here< or email them to us at talkingpoint@alzheimers.org.uk and we'll answer as many as we can on the day.

Where to go from here....

Discussion in 'ARCHIVE FORUM: Support discussions' started by MillyP, Sep 13, 2007.

  1. MillyP

    MillyP Registered User

    Jan 5, 2007
    108
    London
    Mum has decided to put Dad into a Care home. Thing is, she needs to sell up and downsize in order to get the funds for Dads care, as she doesn't have enough.
    Now, she didn't get an EPA...don't ask me why, I said she should but she didn't...anyway we've been told that we now need to see a solicitor and go to the Court of Protection, so that Mum can sell up. Can anyone shed some light on this process in a not too confusing way, as I have never heard of this and not sure what to do now.
    How do I find a good solicitor that deals in this and how long does it take to complete?
    Can this be done without a solicitor?
    All advice appreciated. Thanks:)
     
  2. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,417
    Hi Milly

    I know some people have gone through this so hopefully they will reply. However, from what you say, you are going to have to apply to the court of protection for a receivership which I'm sorry to say, is both time consuming and may be expensive. One thing I feel I should point out, though, is if your mother sells the house in which she and your father are currently residing, 1/2 of the realised proceeds will immediately be considered available for funding the care home. If she stays in the marital home, it is disregarded from the point of view of LA charging. Is she sure she wants to do this?
     
  3. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    68,680
    Kent
    Dear Milly,

    Forgive me if this is too personal, but if your mother wants to sell her home because she feels it is too big for her by herself, that`s one thing. But if she thinks she needs to sell it to fund your father`s care, she should have to.

    No-one should be forced to sell their home to pay for care.
     
  4. MillyP

    MillyP Registered User

    Jan 5, 2007
    108
    London
    #4 MillyP, Sep 13, 2007
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2007
    Thanks for both your quick replys...I have just telephoned the Alzheimers help line and they say she doesn't need to sell her home...she thought she did but because she has less than £13.000 in savings, the council should pay no problem. I have been advised to contact the care home Dad went into for restbite and explain the situation and ask if a Social worker has been appointed. They say that there would be no need to sell up to fund his care home. God this is a nightmare:( ...sorry thinking aloud :)
     
  5. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,417
    #5 jenniferpa, Sep 13, 2007
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2007
    Yes, a victory for the good guys! Are you saying that your father hasn't had a social worker assigned? Because that's awful: apart from anything else that means your mother has never had a carers assessment or anything. Come to think of it, how did you get respite without a social worker?

    Edited to add: I beleive it is possible to get a reciever appointed without going through a solicitor, which might be a good idea even if she doesn't sell the house. Also she may not have to pay the registration fee, dpending on exactly how much savings they have. This is the link (you want to go half way down the page to "Application pack for the appointment of a receiver" http://www.guardianship.gov.uk/formsdocuments/forms.htm
     
  6. sue38

    sue38 Registered User

    Mar 6, 2007
    10,856
    Wigan, Lancs
    Hi Milly,

    If the house is in the joint names of your Mum and Dad then if the house is sold your Mum will only be able to use her half of the net proceeds to fund the purchase of an alternative property. This may mean a more dramatic down-size than she intended. The other half as Jennifer and Sylvia have said will be used to pay for your Dad's care home fees.

    If on the other hand she decides to stay where she is then the whole of the value of the house will be ignored when assessing your Dad's capital.

    Assuming your Mum still wants to move and is happy to use just her half share and the rest go to fund fees, then if your Dad is unable to understand the documents and you do not have an EPA, someone will need to apply to the Court of Protection to be appointed as your Dad's receiver to sign on his behalf.

    As Jennifer says this can be a long and drawn out procedure. You can do the forms yourself, see the Public Guardianship website at http://www.guardianship.gov.uk/theservice/externalreceivers.htm

    The law is changing on the 1st October this year and it seems that instead of appointing receivers (who from 1st October will be known as deputies) with ongoing authority to deal with a person's affairs, the new Court of Protection will be more inclined to make specific orders as and when necessary e.g. that the house be sold. Obviously no one knows yet how this will work in practice. People who are already appointed receivers will not be affected by the changes, other than they will be known as 'deputies'.

    If you want a solicitor to act for you, personal recommendation is always the best guide, but alternatively you could ask the Law Society (see their website at http://www.lawsociety.org.uk/home.law) or your local branch of Age Concern should have a list of recommended solicitors.

    You asked for a not too confusing answer.... I'm sorry if this has confused you more.
     
  7. MillyP

    MillyP Registered User

    Jan 5, 2007
    108
    London
    Well I guessed we must have had a social worker assigned because of the restbite....still it's best to make sure:) Lady who runs that Care home isn't back from holiday until Monday next week so can't ask anything until then...if there isn't a social worker, they will have to sort it out...:) as for my Mum having a carers assessment...wouldn't be able to answer that:confused: ...because of the rush to get Dad into restbite becasue of Mums operation, I think everything was rushed through so it's only now that things will be sorted out properly...here's hoping anyway. :)
     
  8. MillyP

    MillyP Registered User

    Jan 5, 2007
    108
    London
    No hun, all the replies have been very helpful...it's at times like this that I feel so alone...you're all a great help..thanks:) xxx
     
  9. alfjess

    alfjess Registered User

    Jul 10, 2006
    1,213
    south lanarkshire
    Hi Millyp

    Could you phone SS, to enquire if your parents have had a SW assigned or your Mum has had a care assessment?

    If so, then the social worker, should apply for funding and also give you advise on care homes

    Alfjess
     
  10. Margaret W

    Margaret W Registered User

    Apr 28, 2007
    3,725
    North Derbyshire
    Use the social worker to full advantage. Find out the options regarding the house, selling it or not selling it. It might be advantageous to have the house as joint tenants or tenants in common - there is a different, but not sure what it is, or whether it will make a difference to your mum and dad.

    I found Help the Aged very useful at offering advise.

    Hope you sort it.

    Margaret
     
  11. Margaret W

    Margaret W Registered User

    Apr 28, 2007
    3,725
    North Derbyshire
    Just thinking again about the house. If it is still occupied by your mother, it should be disregarded for social security purposes. Even if half of it is regarded as his, it doesn't have to be sold. Anything that social services charge you will be a loan on the property, which doesn't have to be paid until it is sold. Which might be a long time off. The loan is interest free as well.

    Get advice on this, cos the rules are complicated. No, the house won't have to be sold, on that I am certain, but as to what else is involved I am not. Doesn't apply to us as we are selling mum's house anyway.

    Margaret
     
  12. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,417
    Margaret: I think you may be thinking of the 12 week diregard when you talk about loans against the property, but that applies only when there is a sole owner. When a property is owned by a couple, and when one of those couple goes into residential care the only time 1/2 of the value of that property is considered is if 1) the other half of the couple dies first or 2) the property is sold (perhaps becasue of downsizing). Assuming neither of those 2 things happen the LA must exclude the home value from the calculations: no loans, no deferred payments, no lien on the property. It's as if it doesn't exist.
     
  13. MillyP

    MillyP Registered User

    Jan 5, 2007
    108
    London
    #13 MillyP, Sep 14, 2007
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2007
    Ok this is what I have found out so far....phoned the mental health people that were dealing with my Dad, as CPN is on holiday until the 24th...they said they had no record of him having been assigned a social worker and they gave me another number to ring...so, called them and was told that he did have a social worker assigned to him when the restbite was arranged in June BUT that social worker has since left the job and another one wasn't assinged as a replacement :( ....explained the situation and was told that the referral for a carers assesment should have been done by the district nurse...so, phone the district nurse who is...ON HOLIDAY! :mad: ...GETTING MADDER BY THIS TIME.....another district nurse phoned me back and said they were no longer involved as they had not been told to visit anymore :( ...told me to phone the second number I phoned before and ask them to set up a referral...which is what I have done and they were ment to have called me back an hour ago...their offices are now shut so it looks like I'm on the phone again on Monday:(...I'm going to arrange restbite on Monday no matter what and then let the Social services sort it out...we so need a rest...
     
  14. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,417
    Oh dear Milly: you must feel like a parcel, passed from person to person. Good luck for Monday anyway.
     
  15. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    68,680
    Kent
    Good luck Milly. No-one`s making it easy for you are they?

    Love xx
     
  16. MillyP

    MillyP Registered User

    Jan 5, 2007
    108
    London
    Monday's here at last...more telephoning:) ...anyway, phoned the care home Dad went into for restbite and the lady that runs it said that she would be only too happy to have him again, either for restbite or on a more permanent basis...she said she would need to come and assess him again but first needed the ok from his social worker.....SO, phoned social services again this morning only to be told that they have no record of a social worker or Dad on their systems:eek: they don't know who organised the restbite in June for him....told them this is not on as Mum is near to breaking point with everything she is doing...gave them details of Dads CPN, although he's on holiday until the 24th,he must have left someone in charge....they agreed to chase everything up but said it could be 2-4 weeks before we get a home visit from a social worker as it has to be processed:mad: ...told them that wasn't good enough... they have just phoned me and taken all the details about Dad and said that someone should call me this week to sort out a sooner time for a home visit...;) why do we have to get angry before anything is done in this country:confused:...will let you know what happens:rolleyes:
     
  17. alfjess

    alfjess Registered User

    Jul 10, 2006
    1,213
    south lanarkshire
    Hi MillyP

    If you can't get any satisfactory answers from the duty social workers and they are who you talk to on the phone,ask for their manager or at least team leader.

    I had to do this for my parents after 2 months of repeated phone calls and being told they were awaiting paperwork from another region.
    The other region when contacted said they had forwarded, said paperwork and so on, the merry go round of Social Services

    Until I got thoroughly angry, went into the office spoke to the "high heid yins"

    An emergency SW visited the next day and assessed Mum and Dad, a week later they attended Day care

    I am sorry to say it, but you have to insist you are at the end of your tether and cannot cope any longer

    Take care of Mum and yourself
    Alfjess
     
  18. Skye

    Skye Registered User

    Aug 29, 2006
    17,000
    SW Scotland
    Milly, it's disgusting that you're being messed about like this by SS. You're right, you shouldn't have to get angry.

    I do hope you get some satisfaction tomorrow

    Love,


    PS
    :D :D :D It's a while since I heard that one, alfjess!
     
  19. MillyP

    MillyP Registered User

    Jan 5, 2007
    108
    London
    First thing this morning I get a phone call from the Social worker who delt with Dads restbite...it appears she has moved offices. Anyway, she talked it through with me and said she didn't see any problem with Dad going permanently into a resident care home...seeing as we have already found one we like and Dads been there before and liked it etc....she said she would phone me as soon as she could and let me know what has been arranged....fingers crossed:)
     
  20. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    68,680
    Kent
    Hope that really does mean soon Milly and not `whenever`. :rolleyes:

    Love xx
     

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