When was Care Home suggested to you by SS?

Discussion in 'ARCHIVE FORUM: Support discussions' started by Amber 5, Apr 1, 2009.

  1. Amber 5

    Amber 5 Registered User

    Jan 20, 2009
    890
    Berkshire
    I was just wondering what were people's experiences of 'when' Social Services assessed your loved one as needing to go into Care. By that I mean what were the reasons given (apart from things like a stroke or a fall or were in hospital first). I'm also thinking along the lines of how forthcoming SS were with financial assessment to help with the funding involved.
    Thanks,
    Gill x
     
  2. zoet

    zoet Registered User

    when they wouldnt give me a chance to cope is the answer! I can only asume they wanted to get their hands on his money is all I can say! seriously.....pressure to let him go from the very start.............I WIL NOT...HE IS MY DAD....he does NOT want to go into care, and when I cant cope I will say, and when he has to go into care I WILL CHOOSE.
    enough said:mad:
     
  3. christine_batch

    christine_batch Registered User

    Jul 31, 2007
    3,388
    Buckinghamshire
    Dear Amber,

    My husband's Consultant said my husband had to go into a E.M.I. Unit.

    I had already taken our S.W. with a pinch of salt was useless.

    The Consultant wanted my husband in a Unit at the Hospital but I refused to send him there and had found a brilliant Nursing Home near me.

    Best wishes
    Christine
     
  4. Vonny

    Vonny Registered User

    Feb 3, 2009
    4,577
    Telford
    Hi Gill,

    We;ve only seen our SW once, when she came to advise about getting in a carer a few hours a week.

    I posted a couple of weeks ago that our GP said we need to start considering a CH option as mum was far worse than most of the patients in the 2 EMI units in Telford, for whom he is also a GP.

    As dad is now having to haul her to the loo about 20 times a day for the privilege of her actually doing anything maybe twice, I think the time is getting nearer. Dad's a good strong chap but at 81 it's too much for him. I have problems with my shoulders and it has been getting worse since I've had to lug mum around. She'only 6.5 stone bless her, but she is a dead weight and can't co-ordinate her legs at all.

    I don't suppose we'll see the SW again unless we ask for her. So the answer to your question from our perspective is: never!

    Vonny xx
     
  5. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    69,115
    Kent
    I have been told it will be when I am no longer able to cope. I was told by the consultant, not a SW.
     
  6. Skye

    Skye Registered User

    Aug 29, 2006
    17,000
    SW Scotland
    I think it may be a lot to do with funding.

    If they know the person is going to be self-funding, they like to get them into a home early, as that removes responsibility for care and safety from them. Particularly if the person lives alone.

    If however the placement will heve to be funded, they're a bit more hesitant, as they have to justify the funding to the finance dept.

    I was told John had to go into care when he was in hospital, because I would not be able to manage him, and he was transferred directly from there.
     
  7. jackie1

    jackie1 Registered User

    Jun 6, 2007
    238
    Cheshire
    I was told by the Consultant that I needed to start looking a homes last September. But I didn't as I was coping. Sadly a crisis hit and I was left with no real choice. John is now in an assessment unit prior to going into full-time care.

    I do have to say that the SW's I have had contact with have been brilliant and I wouldn't have coped for as long as I did without them. They have given me invaluable practical and emotional support

    Jackie
     
  8. Amber 5

    Amber 5 Registered User

    Jan 20, 2009
    890
    Berkshire
    Thanks to everyone who replied - good to hear your experiences. Interesting to hear that it is mainly Consultants who suggest it. I had thought it was the SW who does the assessments to then say if it was necessary. (At the end of the day though, unless something happens to force the issue, we do have a choice). That is if you have the funds of course.

    I have been looking for a way to move my mum over near me and realise that the Care Home fees would only be affordable if she sells her house and pays until the money gets low enough for the local authority to help. As far as I can tell they are all really expensive, much of a muchness whether they are good or not. What worries me is what happens when her money runs out (which I think would only be after 2-3 years) - would they fund the same place or look for somewhere cheaper and move her.

    I am so frustrated at the thought of putting a move off in order to help fund her future care. I'm not at all sure about moving her in with my family as I think this would cause all sorts of other problems too. But maybe I will have to rethink after all.

    Gill x
     
  9. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    69,115
    Kent
    Hello Gill

    Don`t put off choosing a home for your mother in case her funds run out. It`s too far ahead to predict.

    My mother`s funds ran out and SS allowed her to stay where she was. I know all LAs are different but i`d take a chance.
     
  10. Amber 5

    Amber 5 Registered User

    Jan 20, 2009
    890
    Berkshire
    Thank you Sylvia. I kind of needed to hear that.
    love Gill x
     
  11. Skye

    Skye Registered User

    Aug 29, 2006
    17,000
    SW Scotland
    Amber, I don't think you should consider moving your mum in with you.

    It works well for some people, but you have to really want to do it, and the whole family has to be behind you, otherwise it can cause all sorts of tensions.

    Yes, you will have to fully fund your mum until her money drops to £22,500, and then on a sliding scale. After that, they're unlikely to move your mum, because a move would be upsetting for her. The home would back you on this.

    Good luck,
     
  12. MarkEdge

    MarkEdge Registered User

    Mar 24, 2009
    49
    London
    Hi Gill

    That's not your only option. Has the NHS done a Continuing Care assessment on your Mum to see if she is eligible for full funding (non means-tested) from the NHS? What are her needs?

    Mark
     
  13. Bob S

    Bob S Registered User

    Mar 24, 2009
    392
    Welwyn Garden City
    #13 Bob S, Apr 1, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2009
    Doesn't that depend on whether a person is assessed as having health needs rather than social care needs?

    It was at a multi disciplinary meeting that it was first suggested that my father needed to go into an EMI nursing home, but it was the social worker who took the lead in putting this forward. The social worker also told us that my father would be a self funder, but didn't make any mention of the NHS carrying out an assessment to see if my father would be eligible for fully funded continuing care. Once she had given my sister and I a list of local care homes and suggested that we started looking I then asked if they would be carrying out a full continuing care assessment. There were a lot of jaws hitting the floor when I asked this question. :)
     
  14. Clive

    Clive Registered User

    Nov 7, 2004
    716
    Hi Gill

    I never had any success with SS and never had a Social Worker. I used a private Agency for Care help.

    After a fall mum was held in the Assessment Ward in March (several years ago) … I was told the NHS would not pay for her to go into a Home. Mum was let out when I (foolishly) said I could cope with all the help the private Agency were providing.

    Mum fell (again) in the June and the hospital doctor referred mum to SS (not safe to live on her own). SS took my details 3 separate times, (hospital, city, local) and I chased them up many times, but they never visited mum as she never got to the top of their list.

    Early August the Consultant said I should look for an EMI home… and put mum on a rundown of her Aricept. Her score was 12. She could not look after herself because of her AD… and was double incontinent.

    End of August we had a minor fire and I decided mum could not be left on her own, and it was not practical to sleep at mum’s every night.

    I found the perfect EMI Residential Home on a Tuesday. They said there was a long waiting list. I said it was urgent and mum would be paying. They rang me on the Friday and said a room was available. They assessed mum on the following Wednesday and she went into the Home on the same day.

    Social Services rang a couple of weeks later after they had received a complaint via mum’s MP., and asked if I wanted to fill in a complaint form.

    I started seriously negotiating for NHS Continuing Health Care in the following January, and after a year and a half the PCT agreed that mum should have been receiving NHS CHC. The payments were backdated and mum eventually paid for only the first 6 weeks she was in an EMI Residential Home.

    I had expected mum to have to pay until her money ran out… but it did not turn out that way.

    Best wishes

    Clive

    PS. Check before moving your mum from one area to another. I think it only applies after you have gone into a Home and have started receiving payments from the authorities… I believe that the authorities do not like people being moved to a more expensive area once they are paying for a Home and expect you to make up the difference. I had problems with the PCT because mum’s Home was in a different PCT area to where she had lived. They were just trying to find a way of not paying.
     
  15. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,429
    Another thing to bear in mind should your mother be self-funded for a period of time: the price quoted to a self-funder may be more than the home would accept from an LA. I check with my mother's home and while we were paying £600, if it was funded by the LA it would have been £450 (their normal rate) - any home should be willing to tell you. Further, while it can be difficult if the LA is paying to move from one jurisdiction to another (particularly if moving from a "cheap" area to a more expensive one) if you have been self-funding for a while, you are considered regularly domiciled in the new area and don't have to involved the old LA at all.

    P.S. I was never told that my mother needed to go into a home (social worker? what social worker?). Nor, I have to say, did I notice anything like Hazel describes: since mummy was going to be paying for care whether given in her own home or given elsewhere, it didn't apparently make any difference to the LA since they had washed their hands of her.
     
  16. Skye

    Skye Registered User

    Aug 29, 2006
    17,000
    SW Scotland
    That seems to vary from LA to LA, Jennifer. Some provide quite a considerable free care package in the home, particularly if the person lives alone. In these cases, it would be easier for SS to have the person admitted to a care home, and the family home used for funding.

    Other areas of course provide nothing!:(
     
  17. JPG1

    JPG1 Account Closed

    Jul 16, 2008
    3,396
    #17 JPG1, Apr 1, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2009
    Well, Amber, 'care home' was never 'suggested' by SS - we were not given an option. Perhaps the SS is appropriately named!!

    Foolishly, we had agreed to an 'assessment unit' assessment, insisting that the assessment should be of all the medical needs, not only the dementia. That was agreed by the SS, and by the MDTeam.

    But then, the SS and the MDTeam decided that it would have to be care home or nothing, for the simple reason that the previous 'extra-care sheltered housing' could not handle someone who wandered twice only (in less than one year) from that housing, desperate to "go home", and once only (in less than one year) had refused to allow support workers to enter the flat. Other medical problems - not the dementia - had increased during that year, which is why the need for 'assessment' of all medical needs was requested by us.

    The SS had recommended the 'extra-care sheltered housing' a mere 6 months after the dementia took hold with a medium vengeance, so we naively trusted that it was suitable for a person living on their own but living with with dementia. Not so, SS, not so.

    We expected the support workers would have some ability to encourage, to work with, to persuade gently, and to engage with someone with dementia - not so. Hardly surprising - we had no idea then that those support workers were all 'temporary agency recruits'. With no long-term loyalties to either the agency employing them, nor to the Domiciliary Care Agency receiving them via the other agency, and certainly not to the person they were supposed to be supporting. We had asked all the sensible questions about recruitment, staff remaining in post, permanent/semi staff - but we were told untruths. The support workers were the equivalent of casual labour.

    So, the SS and the MDT held an otherwise gentle person with dementia in their 'assessment unit' for a total of 4 months, while they waited for the waiting list to shorten, and there was nothing we, family, could do to change the situation, even though it was a voluntary admission. Volunteered by family, not by the person with dementia. So much for permission being required from the sufferer.

    So not suggested by SS - merely imposed by devious means by SS and the MDTeam.

    To this day, we still have no idea why. But we're working on it. One day we will understand.

    .
     
  18. Amber 5

    Amber 5 Registered User

    Jan 20, 2009
    890
    Berkshire
    Thanks again for everyone's replies - it is much appreciated and helping me to think a bit clearer!!

    My mum is probably in early stages but has good and bad days/weeks! I will try not to bore you with too long a detailed description - BUT, I think the confusion with days, times, day/night and the many knock on effects of that is the worst thing for her. She doesn't sleep well at night and gets completely in a tizz if she knows she has an appointment of any description. No matter how many times a day (when she asks me) I explain what will be happening on Friday, for example,(it's her CPN appointment) she still can't take it in and has been ringing in an agitated state worried that she has missed it. The thing that is slightly worrying is that she is commenting on how there must be something wrong with her brain and how she is 'feeling suicidal'. At least we will be able to talk to the CPN about this, as I fear she has a bit of depression now. (She has lost all interest in TV, reading, crosswords etc. so just goes and lies on her bed). She eats food, but a lot of it is 'sweet' stuff and Wiltshire Farm Foods when she can be bothered to microwave it. Given a hot dinner though, she will eat quite well. She has to have tablets under lock and key for carers to come and give her as she kept taking too many. There are other strange things she does - she won't switch off her gas fire at all at the moment. It is tricky to get back on again, but heaven knows what her next bill will be like. Thank goodness for cold weather payments!

    Part of me feels that she is not ready for a Care Home, but part of me thinks that the stimulation of having more people around her and activities going on (even if just to watch), would help her well-being. Plus if I could visit so much more than now, we could do more together.

    She would be moving from a cheaper area to more expensive area, which is why it has been so difficult to find anything suitable to buy/rent. I have found an Assisted Living home with Rennaisance floor upstairs (for when needed!) which would be lovely - if I can get her used to the idea! (It's only ten minutes away from where I live, rather than 2 hrs where she is now.) She is still 'aware' of lots of things but I do think she would benefit from this type of environment. (I have talked to someone on TP whose mum is in the same place, so have some inside information which has been reassuring!)

    So, if I went ahead and moved her here, she would be classed as a 'resident' of the local borough after 6 months and would then be eligible for assessment by the local area if and when her funds got down to below £22,500. (Her current SW has already said to me that she would have to be assessed by my local authority if she moves here, so I don't think she has any intention of getting involved, if she can help it!)

    I will see what comes out of the SW / Care Agency reassessment meeting tomorrow, followed by the CPN appointment on Friday and see how things stand then. The Care Home will be in touch next week to see if I want to take advantage of their reduced fee rates (that's another thing - I bet given the current economic climate, they are having to offer the fees at LA rates to get people in!!)

    I have gone on too long as usual. Thanks for listening!
    Best Wishes
    Gill x
     
  19. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    10,824
    london
    #19 Margarita, Apr 1, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2009
    That is true, because it all depends on how much saving the person has. As a person can own there own property, still not pay towards they care while living in there own property .

    I Know your mother own her own property from reading your post Amber, but has a financial assessment been done on your mother saving income from her pension ?

    While living in the house she living in now?
     
  20. Amber 5

    Amber 5 Registered User

    Jan 20, 2009
    890
    Berkshire
    Hi Margarita,
    A financial assessment has been done recently for Attendance Allowance purposes and she was successful in obtaining the higher rate.

    She receives her state pension, housing benefit, pension guarantee credit and savings credit. Doesn't have to pay Council Tax or for her carers coming 1 hr per day.

    Is that what you meant Margarita?

    Thanks,
    Gill x
     

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