When the money runs out...

Ijen

New member
Jul 16, 2018
4
0
Hi, I'd really appreciate some guidance with this situation;

Dad has Parkinson's with dementia, mum is sole carer and it's too much for her. No doubt it's an all-too-common scenario so I'll describe it last.

The plan so far is to sell their house, give mum her life back, and put dad in a home somewhere near me. I've visited a few and found a suitable one I think he'll like. By our calculations, the cash he'll have will last approximately 7-8 years. But, given that he's relatively young and, in most respects other than his brain, is fairly healthy, it seems likely that he could out-live that money. And that's question; what happens when that money runs out?

The fear is that mum and I could somehow end up liable for his fees which, it goes without saying, neither or us can remotely afford. This doubt is the main thing holding us back from proceeding with immediately putting him in a home.

The other question is, given that ideally we'd put dad in a home before selling the house and his finances will be eroded very quickly by care home fees, is it permissible or advisable for me to finance dad's short-term care home costs from my own savings and then recover that cost once the house has been sold? I'd rather avoid taking any loans if I can help it.

Mum and I both have LPA (finance and health and welfare) for my dad so I'm hoping admining the whole thing should be straightforward.

The scenario with dad; he resists taking his medication, refuses to drink, and is frequently paranoid, obsessive, delirious or catatonic. He has fallen twice this week, had paramedics round once, and taken to A&E the other time. He regularly wets and soils himself and then spreads the mess round the house with him; mum is constantly clearly up. Social services are coming in twice a day at the moment which is of *some* limited help - although there's also a considerable administrative burden (they're always making mistakes, especially with billing). And it's not like she can just ignore the fact that he's walking poo round the house when they're not there, so SS help equates to exactly no extra freedom for her. It would be a tough situation even if their relationship had been one where you might have expected her to give up all these years of her life for him - which it never really was. They regarded themselves as effectively separated for many years. But she's an intensely conscientious person with an irrational sense of guilt about the idea of not caring for him. And now her physical and mental health is suffering; it's up to me to sort something out ASAP.

Just to say, my heart goes out to all the carers. It's intensely humbling to realise just how many people are going through the same thing (and worse) as my mum, and it's comforting to find a place such as this with such helpful people.

Thanks
 

sixy74

Registered User
Jul 4, 2018
101
0
Hi
My Mum is in exactley the same situation so my heart goes out to both your mum and yourself. I can’t really offer much advice as I am currently trying to sort out a similar situation but I’m sure you will receive help and advice from the guys here. I hope things work out well for you and your mum
 

Beate

Registered User
May 21, 2014
12,179
0
London
Ok, first things first- no one will ever be able to force you to fork out for care fees. If HIS money runs out, the state will step in. Once his savings go below £23,250, they will part-fund, once he goes below £14,250, they will fund all. A few caveats though: while holding the purse strings they also have a say which care home they are willing to finance. If they can find a cheaper one that meets his needs, that's where they'll shift him. Also, nothing is completely free - Dad will have to hand over his State Pension and half of any private pension.

I don't want to be maudlin, but my OH was diagnosed with dementia about a month before his 67th birthday. He was completely healthy, fit and mobile otherwise. He died last Novemver at the age of 73. 7-8 years are a long time in dementia progression. Sure, some live longer but it's not a guarantee. So you might never see the money run out, but my advice is, when researching care homes, don't go for nice-looking but expensive hotel type buildings. Go for the warm, caring homes with the threadbare carpet.

And yes, you are allowed to reimburse yourself for any expenses in his name. You should however also know that your mother cannot be forced to sell their joint property to fund his care. As long as she lives in it, it cannot be touched or counted in any financial assessment. So by selling it you're not actually doing her a favour!
 
Last edited:

jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
39,442
0
I'm really bemused why your mother is considering selling her home. Is it because she wants to downsize, or is it because she thinks she has to to fund his care? Because if it's the latter, she is mistaken - the home is disregarded for the purposes of assessing finances when it comes to paying for a care home if she is still living in it.

Of course, if you want the local authority today for residential care, they will have to agree he needs it.
 

Kat.moo

Registered User
Jul 11, 2018
35
0
You might want to contact social services and mention Carer strain. Poor mum seems to be struggling a lot. They can advise on options and conduct an assessment. Like above posts mentioned the house doesn’t need to be sold if mum still living there. Make sure to get financial advice and if dad is not already, apply for attendance allowance.
 

Ijen

New member
Jul 16, 2018
4
0
Thanks for such quick replies all. Regarding the good question of why we're considering selling the house, it's for a number of reasons;

It's partly that we want to do this ASAP, and our LA don't seem to do anything quickly. We had a case review a couple of months ago but they've gone completely silent since then. Their entire focus is directed toward supporting/keeping mum in her carer role, and so far they've not been interested in helping her out of it, except to offer carers 4x a day which is probably more trouble than it's worth. So the fear is partly that the LA will drag on with the present situation until mum brakes down, and partly also that what they'll offer won't be at all nice or convenient.

My parents live too far away from me to conveniently get to them so I'd like to move them both a bit nearer. If the care home was near me dad could see his granddaughter more often (she brings him the most joy of anything in the world). But I doubt the LA would offer to fund a care home round here.

Another reason is that their house is a tall old 3 bedroom house in need of more decorating and maintenance than mum can handle. But the location is good so developers would be interested. With her half of the value of the house she'd be able to afford something smaller and more manageable.

As I understand it, the situation is that the house is excluded from the financial assessment for dad's care while she's still living in it. But as soon as the house is sold or she ceases to live in it, it the LA then claim against that value. In other words, they'll have it either way. Sooner or later (am I wrong about that?). The question is whether she'd rather continue living in it, or if she could find somewhere else with her half of the sale proceeds which she'd prefer. I'm thinking she possibly could.
 

Melles Belles

Registered User
Jul 4, 2017
1,213
0
South east
Can someone correct me if I am wrong but I was under the impression that if a couple wanted to down size to a smaller home as the OH needed to go into care, they could spend more than 50% of the value of the old property on the new one. Both would get 50% each of the balance in funds which could be liable to be spent on care. There’s alway a possibility that the PWD could return to live at home
 

Ijen

New member
Jul 16, 2018
4
0
That's interesting, Melles Belles - I'll be contacting a care home funding adviser and will ask about that, as well as some of these other questions which are still floating around my mind;

  • What is the best way in the short term to have the LA agree to place my father in a care home? What steps are necessary? They seem to have gone quiet on us...
  • What is the LA likely to offer and how much choice will we have? What if it's it's unpleasant and inconvenient for the family?
  • Is there any way to have my father move to a care home nearer to me without being forced to pay third party top-up fees myself? On the LA webpage they give a nominal fee of £500pw maximum for care home fees... which would cover less than half the cost of standard places round where I live.
  • Do we need to do anything in particular to guarantee that my mother's assets, including her share of the value of the house, are protected from my father's care home costs? Given their history, it would be grossly unfair if she were forced to pay towards his care.
  • If my mother decides to move house after my father passes away, will the LA at that point decide to retrospectively include the house in my father's financial assessment, and make a claim at that point?
  • If we do decide to sell the house and privately fund dad's care at a place of our choosing near me, what would happen in the scenario where his funds run out (eg. 7-8 years down the line)? The place I have in mind, near where I live, is by no means fancy or expensive for the area, but it is nice and costs more than double what dad's LA quote on their website as the maximum contribution towards care home fees they'll provide. This is worrying me.

Thanks everyone
 

Forum statistics

Threads
138,144
Messages
1,993,340
Members
89,799
Latest member
GillWife