When is it time for EPA?

Discussion in 'Legal and financial issues' started by elaineo2, Sep 29, 2007.

  1. elaineo2

    elaineo2 Registered User

    Jul 6, 2007
    945
    leigh lancashire
    Hi everyone,I have just ben sut,sat,sitting here having a think(dangerous to say the least!).If you recall,last week my sister and i booked a family holiday for next year,me and my youngest2,my sister,mumand dad.Having not given it a thought,we put dads name as the lead of the booking,(respect for the elders).Today dad got a letter of confirmation and there are discrepancies on the invoice.Mum asked if i would sort it out.I phoned the company to be told that they would have to speak to the lead name on the booking.I explained that dad had Alzheimers and the lady was very sympathetic.The upshot being that because i don't have EPS,dad is the one they have to talk to.They did say that dad can phone and tell them he gives permission for me to deal with the booking,but hang on a bit!How nice will this sound to him,"hello my dad has got alzheimers and he will now speak to you to give me permission to sort this out! All done in front of him!They asked if we made them aware at time of booking that he had alzheimers!i for one have never seen that one on a booking form!anyway the point after my ramble is,when is the right time to ask for EPA?love and thanks elainex
     
  2. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,439
    This doesn't really answer your point, but I got round this sort of stuff by simply getting the company (whichever company: utilities, credit card etc on the phone) saying my mother has asked me to deal with this matter and then putting her on the phone whereupon they asked do you want so and so to deal with this, and she'd say yes and then she'd hand the phone back to me. On several occasions I did a 3 way conference calls when I was in the US and she was in the UK. I never actually explained WHY she wanted me to deal with it: I took the attitude that if she was a captain of industry, she'd expect her secretary to deal with these matters and it was none of the companies business WHY she wanted me to deal with it and I was just acting as a secretarial service.

    As I said, it doen't answer your question. The answer to that is when capacity is diminished, but I don't think not being able to work out a complex billing issue with a holiday company necessarily means that you need to register an EPA.
     
  3. Margaret W

    Margaret W Registered User

    Apr 28, 2007
    3,725
    North Derbyshire
    Hi Elaine,

    You cannot take out an EPA or one of the new types of Lasting POA which come in on Monday October 1st, unless your dad is capable of understanding what he is signing for.

    If he is, then you have just one day to get one of the old-style EPAs drawn up, which takes no time at all, and doesn't cost anything. I'm no good at weblinks, but google Enduring Power of Attorney, or Court of Protection, and you will be able to download the 4-page form to fill in.

    The present EPA only allows you to deal with financial matters, which I suppose an invoice is, not decisions about medical treatment etc. But at least its better than nothing.

    You will need to decide who is going to be the attorney (or attorneys - more than one is advisable in case of illness etc. of a single attorney as you cannot add new ones later so you will need to print two copies of page 4 I think), and as well as your dad signing the form, so must the attorneys. All signatures need to be witnessed, better not by a direct relative - get the next door neighbours in!

    Once it is done, provided that is tomorrow, many organisations will accept it as giving power to deal with dad's financial affairs, with no further hassle (though they may want to see a copy). However, some require the POA to be "Certified", which means going to a solicitor and getting them to sign each page, and then getting photocopies to send to the organisation who wants it. Some require it to be "Registered", which in fact you have to do if you think the "donor" (your dad) is starting to be incapable of dealing with his own financial affairs. Registration involves payment of £120, notifying your dad and all attorneys (via another form which you can download from the Court of Protection), and sending off the original EPA to them - and waiting for up to 35 days - though the Court lost mine and it took 3 weeks for them to find it!!!

    The new POAs give wider powers to attorneys (but can be reduced by the donor), cost a lot more to set up (£200 I think), are 25 pages long, and much more complex.

    I can see you might have a busy Sunday ahead!

    But I can't see why the travel company need all this. Surely you don't need to tell them or your dad anything about Alzheimers, just a message from you dad saying, Yes I am Elaine's dad, I'm not very good at understand these things, and it would be easier for you to speak to Elaine.

    Hope this helps.

    Margaret
     
  4. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,439
    Maragret raises a good point: I assumed you were talking about registering a previously drawn up EPA, but perhaps you're talking about drawing one up. If so you have tomorrow to do it in but after that you're on to the LPA.
     
  5. Margaret W

    Margaret W Registered User

    Apr 28, 2007
    3,725
    North Derbyshire
    I should have started with "Everyone should have an EPA or one of the new-type POAs", whatever their age (just as they should all have a will). We never know what life holds in store - a car accident, a virus, depression, arthritis, whatever, that might stop you dealing with your normal affairs such as withdrawing your pension or paying the mortgage.

    Think about it.

    Margaret
     
  6. elaineo2

    elaineo2 Registered User

    Jul 6, 2007
    945
    leigh lancashire
    Thanks Jennifer,The three way phone call is not something i relish the thought at but will need to be done..Mums having a well earned day out with friends tomorrow.Big sister in taking care of dad until i finish work.The plan is to bring him to mine and make the call,i just don't want him to feel humiliated.At the end of the day i was maybe wrong in putting his name as lead of the holiday,but i have so much respect for him and my elders it seemed right.I am sat here shaking my head at myself.I am sure i can sort it all out.The EPA was mentioned by the holiday company.Dad,s nowhere near that stage yet.He has a fistful of dollars in his pocket and won't part with a cent if he can help it!Bills are paid through mum,god job!the tight ***************.lol.love elainex
     
  7. Chrissyan

    Chrissyan Registered User

    Aug 9, 2007
    570
    N E England
    Travel Insurance

    Hi elaine02, Can I just ask you, as an ex travel agent myself, where is the holiday? If it is abroad & you need to have travel insurance it will be invalid for any problems that arise due to his AD if you do not declare this illness. If you do you might have difficulty getting him insured & the premium will go right up.

    With regards to sorting out the invoice. I often do similar things for my Dad, I don't offer any explanation to whatever company I am calling, I just say I am Mr So & So's daughter & ringing on his behalf. They usually ask if he is there & briefly talk to him & then let me continue. No one has ever asked me why I am speaking on his behalf so I have never had to humiliate him with an explanation to them while he is in the room. Hope this helps.:)
     
  8. elaineo2

    elaineo2 Registered User

    Jul 6, 2007
    945
    leigh lancashire
    Thanks everyone.The holiday is in Turkey.We booked the holiday about an hour before mum got the call that the consultant was coming to see Dad the day after.Due to travel agent insurance being quite expensive we declined to take it.(maybe we had an inclination what the outcome of the consultant visit would be).When dad was diagnosed the day after,my sister and I got the insurance sorted,declaring dads illness.It still worked out cheaper!I think i will let mum carry on the good work on the financial side.She knows we are here if there are any problems.I don't want to make any of them feel inadequate.love elainex
     
  9. May

    May Registered User

    Oct 15, 2005
    627
    Yorkshire
    EPA/LPOA, get one done asap, save yourself anguish in the long run. Don't wait until Dad is on the border of capability. You don't actually need to use or register it (epa ,don't know about the new one) it's just there as a safeguard. After delaying Mum's for as long as possible it was nearly too late, (paid for consultant to visit to give an assessment of her capability to understand to make everything watertight & legal) I now have one (my children as signatories) and no, I've not cracked yet :D just being sensible, because if a bus ran me over tomorrow and left me brain damaged I'd want my kids not an outside court looking after my interests.
     
  10. Nell

    Nell Registered User

    Aug 9, 2005
    1,170
    Australia
    Dear Elaine,

    Several years ago when it was suggested to my Mum and Dad that they think about POA, they went ahead and did it - putting each other as the other's POA!! :eek:

    When they went into the Care Home, the Care Home (naturally) wouldn't accept that so we redid them (very much simpler in Aust. than the UK, from what I read on TP). This time, Mum and I were POA for Dad, and Dad and I were POA for Mum.

    In reality the only person to ever use the POA is me. But it did help them both not to feel useless at the time of drawing up the POA, which was why we did it that way.

    If you do something similar, make sure the POA can be operated "jointly or severally" (like a joint bank account). This means you can operate it without your Mum's participation if needs be. I expect that at present you have no need of that, because your Mum is fine. But there may come a time when her judgement and decision making are not so good, and you need to take over.

    I would encourage you to do the EPA with BOTH parents, and indeed with your own hubby. My hubby and I took out POA on each other several years ago after he had a very major illness. We have never needed to use them, but it is reassuring to have.

    Every best wish as ever.
     

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