What's the best solution for grandmother?

Discussion in 'ARCHIVE FORUM: Support discussions' started by SmogTheCat, Sep 1, 2005.

  1. SmogTheCat

    SmogTheCat Registered User

    Sep 1, 2005
    45
    Italy
    Hello to everybody.
    I'm new in this forum and I'm not native English speaking.
    Since a couple of months my grandmother has been disgnosticate Althzaimer.
    She is 83 years old and lives with grandfahter (84 years old) in their own flat.
    Grandfather has several problemes: he can't walk without someone who helps him, he is incontinent and has diabete, so he need someone who care him.
    We convince them to get a person for 4 hours in the morning for helping Grandfahter and cooking (grandmother isn't able to cook by herself... she is very confused!).
    Now we notice that they need to be monitorized and helped all day, so we found an other persone for the afternoon untile 8.30pm whrn they go to bed.
    Grandfather acceepted the other persone because he needs help, but grandmother no....
    She is became aggressive with my mum (her lonney doughter) and me.
    She says she doesn't need any help...
    she fight with neighbours, with me, my Mum...
    Since a copule of days she is shouting to the person who care of them in the afternoon and to me and my mum because she says she doesn't need anyone.
    A couple if weeks ago, after a week of threatment, in according to the doctor, we have to suspend the Altzheimer cure because she do non tollerate pills and she saw non-real people and images. Next appointment to the doctor is in the second week of Sept for a kind of pills.
    My Mum is seriusly thinking to a nursery home for both of them but in the same time we are not convince about that... it seems bad put them in an "house for old people".
    We are tired... phone rings every time of day and night (grandmother calls for everithing), my parents and I can't spend a day together out of town because someone needs to care grandparents, no summer holidays, no christmas holidays... everyone is very nervous at home....
    When Grandmother become aggressive with us, sometimes we shout at her but we don't know if is it a good thing.
    Last night I shout at her by phone and after that I was so sorry that I wasn't able to sleep untile 2 am!

    Any suggestion is appreciate. Sorry for my English but it isn't easy write this thing in English for me.
     
  2. Brucie

    Brucie Registered User

    Jan 31, 2004
    12,413
    near London
    Buon Giorno, SmogTheCat

    First of all, your English is pretty good! Well done.

    Your problem is a common one, but it is difficult to advise you as I do not know what help is available in Italia.

    In England it is often difficult to get help [as you will see from Talking Point].

    If your grandmother looks after your grandfather and she has Alzheimer's, then it is a big problem. His care needs and safety have to be protected, as do your grandmother's needs.

    Perhaps the best solution would be a care home where they could live together, but it is difficult to find such a place in England, and I am sure it is the same in Italia. It is very difficult to move people to such places because they may not understand, and your family will also feel guilty. But it may be needed to protect the safety of your grandparents.

    Do not worry about shouting! We have all done that, and your grandparents will not remember.

    Have you contacted Alzheimer Italia? Perhaps they can advise you about support in Italia?

    http://www.alzheimer.it/

    http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/1420/homeen.html

    To obtain information, you can reach Alzheimer Italia at the following address:
    Federazione Alzheimer Italia
    Via Tommaso Marino, 7 - 20121 Milano (Italy)
    tel. ++39.2.809767 fax ++39.2.875781
    e-mail: alzit@tin.it

    Good luck.
     
  3. Sheila

    Sheila Registered User

    Oct 23, 2003
    2,259
    West Sussex
    Hello Smogthecat, welcome to TP. Please do get in contact with the Italian Alzheimers Federation because things may happen differently to over here. It must be very distressing for you all to see your grandparents like this. As they both have health problems, it sounds like 24/7 care is really the only answer. Try not to feel guilty for having to make these decisions. It is not your fault, it is the fault of the illness. You have to do the best you can to keep them safe at all times. If this means a home, then that is the best you can do. Please keep posting and let us know how things are. We all understand the sadness you feel and will do our best to support you. Love She. XX
     
  4. connie

    connie Registered User

    Mar 7, 2004
    9,519
    Frinton-on-Sea
    Hi Bourngiorno, com est ta. Thats the extent of my italian, but 'welcome'. I can only echo Bruce & Sheila when they urge you to contact your local 'Alzheimers' branch.

    Your english is O.K. Please let us know how you get on. Arrivederci, Connie
     
  5. SmogTheCat

    SmogTheCat Registered User

    Sep 1, 2005
    45
    Italy
    Thanks a lot to everyone.
    Yesterday was a little better day.
    In the morning Gramy was very angry with everybody but the person who care them in the morning was able to convince her to go out together for buying some food.
    She was angry because she doesn't want the other person in the afternoon.
    At noon she refuse to eat so she skipped the lunch.
    When she is angry she skips lunch or dinner. Is it a normal reaction for Alzheimer?
    So, we decided to don't send the person in the afternoon (it was a new one and I bet grandmo doesn't like her). My Mum phoned to Gramy to saying her the other persone will not go in the afternoon ann.... she became very lovely and relexad.
    Grandfhater started walking a little by himself from bed to sofa.
    He tried to eat by himself and... slowly but he was able.
    In the later afternoon mu Mum went to their house and Gramy was friendly chatting with neighbors and preparing someting for dinner.....
    Now my question is: is it normal that the situation change in this way day by day? One day is good and on other very bad?

    Thanks a lot about Italian Alzheimer center address. I only need a little time to "decide to contact them". In particular my Mum need to decide to do that. I think we haven't fully accepted the situation... we are talking a lot at home about this...
    I spend some days before writing in your forum my story....

    That'a all for this morning!
    Bye
     
  6. Brucie

    Brucie Registered User

    Jan 31, 2004
    12,413
    near London
    Hello SmogTheCat

    When she is angry she skips lunch or dinner. Is it a normal reaction for Alzheimer?

    Eating, doing normal things, always a possible problem in the early and middle stages of Alzheimer's

    Now my question is: is it normal that the situation change in this way day by day? One day is good and on other very bad?

    This is absolutely normal. As one of our friends on Talking Point says "day by day". You have to expect good and bad - sometimes over hours, not days.

    You can't fight it, you must adjust to it while trying to have help in caring, medication, etc.

    I think we haven't fully accepted the situation... we are talking a lot at home about this...

    it will take time for the problem to be accepted by your family. We all look for other possible causes. But if it really is Alzheimer's then the sooner you can accept that, the sooner you can start to make sure that things are as good as they can be, given the circumstances.

    Good luck!
     
  7. KarenC

    KarenC Registered User

    Jun 2, 2005
    122
    Los Angeles, USA
    Hello, SmogTheCat,

    It does take time to accept a bad situation like this. That's good that you and your parents are talking a lot about it. Sometimes a crisis of some sort will force a decision to be made. But even if it comes to that -- for example if your grandfather gets really sick -- it will be good that you have all been thinking about options.

    Good luck and please tell us how things are going!

    Karen
     
  8. Sheila

    Sheila Registered User

    Oct 23, 2003
    2,259
    West Sussex
    Dear Smogthecat, yes, things do change, one day good, next day awful, its the way of the illness sadly. It is good that you are talking this through as a family, that will help you all to come to terms with what needs to be done. Hope tomorrow is better for you all. Love She.XX
     
  9. SmogTheCat

    SmogTheCat Registered User

    Sep 1, 2005
    45
    Italy
    Lots of things happen since my last message.
    We thought to have found a solution with a person in the morning an an other in the afternoon but... grondmother became gelous of grandfather and she shout and send out of home person who cares grandfather.
    We have just changed 2 woman for the afternoon....
    In last days she became also aggressive with grandfather and this morning my Mum take the decision to divide them: my father is at grandparent's house with grandfather and grandmother is in our house with us.
    Honestly I don't like this situation and I don't want to accept it. I pretend to have a family... my parents have to stay together. What about us? I don't accept to trow away my life and the life of my parents...
    My dad had a job... what about his job? He can't lose the job, the family and his freedom... the same for my Mum and me...
    Sorry for this message... I could appear as a person who care only for herself but... it isn't this... I love my grnadparents but I don't think we have to change our life for them. They got their own life... why we can't???
     
  10. Lynne

    Lynne Registered User

    Jun 3, 2005
    3,433
    Suffolk,England
    Hello SmogTheCat,

    I am so sorry you are in this horrid situation, and it is very difficult for all family members to help, but still to keep some sort of normal life (job, quality time for children, grandchildren etc.).
    You and your Mother are doing very good work in trying to find ways to support your Grandmother & Grandfather. Sometimes what you try will work, sometimes it will not, and sometimes a compromise will help a little but not as much as you had hoped. That's how it is for all of us, because this disease is as individual as the people who have it. Don't blame yourself or feel guilty for the things which didn't work so well. At least you tried! And don't think you appear selfish to us for wishing things were like they used to be before your Gramy became ill - we ALL wish that for ourselves & our families! We truly understand how distressing this is for you. Keep trying with the help of Federazione Alzheimers Italia, because they understand as well.

    I don't know how practical this might be but - as your Gramy becomes jealous of your Grandfather receiving help from a woman assistant - could you ask FAI if they have a man who could visit? Perhaps your Gramy would like that better! It is obviously difficult for her to accept another woman (other than family) coming in to their home and "taking over" (as she may see it) doing the things which she has done for so many years. It is probably very frightening for her - even though her reaction is fierce and angry.

    It may be that one or both of them will have to go into a nursing home, if only for a short time (we call it respite care here) so that your Mother & Father can work out what is best to do for them. It is unlikely that everybody will be happy about this, you included, but sometimes there just is no perfect solution and your Mother will need all the support you can give her, because she is also under much emotional strain and distress. It may also be that the time will come when one or both of your grandparents will need to be cared for in a nursing home all the time, and that is an even more difficult decision to make. ALL of us who care for people with Alzheimers feel tremendous guilt and torment because we cannot continue to look after them personally, but we would feel even worse if they had an accident (burned or scalded themselves, for example, or fell down the stairs) because we had failed to face up to that difficult decision.

    All I can advise is take things day by day; don't try to take responsibility for the way it is affecting the whole family, just try to work on one problem at a time, if possible without getting too upset about each one.

    God bless
     
  11. KarenC

    KarenC Registered User

    Jun 2, 2005
    122
    Los Angeles, USA
    Hello SmogTheCat,

    It sounds like your mother has gone too far, probably in desparation to do something to help. I think it is too far when your parents are no longer living together as a couple, if your father gives up his job, etc., to try to help the grandparents.

    Sometimes people get so overwhelmed that they just start doing whatever they think it takes, because they don't have time or energy to think things through. I would agree with Lynne's idea about trying to get one or both grandparents temporarily into some kind of hospital or care home, to give your parents some breathing space to sort this out. I don't know how it will work there; here in the U.S. doctors sometimes will hospitalize an elderly person primarily for that reason -- to give the family some time to come up with a long-term solution.

    Good luck and don't give up on your own life!

    Karen
     
  12. SmogTheCat

    SmogTheCat Registered User

    Sep 1, 2005
    45
    Italy
    Thanks a lot to everyone.
    Yesterday I talked to my Mum via msn messenger because grandmohter was at our house and we can't talk about the situation with her in the same room (we have a small house: living room, bathroom, bedroom and a very small kitchen).
    My mum told me that in the morning gradmother became very aggressive with grandfather and started to hit him. The person who care them in the morning was scared and phoned to my mum. Then they divided granparents like I worte yesterday.
    Last afternoon the doctor told us to give her Selenase to keep her calm. We started this morning with Serenase but.... after lunch I was on the phone with a friend, grandmohter asking me something but I continued speaking on the phone without answer her... she became crazy and aggressive with my Mum.
    Some minutes later she relaxed and my Mum drop her at home. last night grandmohter said she want to come back home, the same this morning.
    This morning she remember that she hitted her husband but she said it was the right thing for thim! Is this normal? :confused:

    As soon as they arrive at grandmohter's home.... she became crazy again and aggressive. The call the doctor and after 2 or 3 hours they was able to calm her a little and take her to the emergency room.
    I've just received a phone call from my Mum... they are coming back home. Tonight my Dad will stay at grandparent's house for another night to monitorize grandmother...

    Yesterday Mum told me they (she and Dad) were thinking to put grandmother in a nursery home for alzheimer but... for my Mum it's hard to accept....

    I think this is the best solution but it's hard to convince my Mum...
     
  13. Sheila

    Sheila Registered User

    Oct 23, 2003
    2,259
    West Sussex
    Dear Smogthecat, although it is not perhaps what you would like to do. In the circumstances, it may be for the best if you look at the possibility of nursing home care. With the best will in the world, there does come a time when this is really the only option sometimes. Thinking of you, love She. XX
     
  14. SmogTheCat

    SmogTheCat Registered User

    Sep 1, 2005
    45
    Italy
    Last night my dad spent the night at grandparents home.
    At ER doctors gave to grandmother two different drugs to keep her quiet.
    They told us, in case she become aggressive, to call the police.
    This morning my mus goes to fill in the form in a nursery home for alzheimer.
    We decided last night it is the best solutions....
     
  15. daughter

    daughter Registered User

    Mar 16, 2005
    824
    Hi SmogTheCat,

    It's a tough decision and your Mum will find it hard but I'm sure you'll find it's for the best.

    Best wishes,
     
  16. Brucie

    Brucie Registered User

    Jan 31, 2004
    12,413
    near London
    Buon Giorno, SmogTheCat

    It is such a hard decision for your family to take!

    The thing for you all now is to understand that this is not something that means the end for you all. It is just a new beginning, one where you all must adjust to a new way of relating.

    Care does not only take place at home. You do not stop being a carer, or caring, when a relative lives in a new place.

    Your grandmother will take some time to become used to her new life, when that happens. You will need to learn new skills and tactics, because it will be very difficult at first. Your grandmother will probably ask you to take her home when you visit, she will probably find it difficult to adjust to being with other people that she does not know. She may become more confused and not know you at first. She may stop eating - or she may eat more. Her medications will need testing, and will be adjusted according to how they affect her.

    Make a good relationship with the home and with her doctor at the home.

    If and when she moves to a care home, you will all have more energy to be good for her when you see her.

    And you will get some of your own lives back. You may need to help support your parents as they will find it hard too, and they will support you. It will not be easy, but we can see from your posts on TP that you are a very strong, caring, and loving person. That is the best possible start!
     
  17. SmogTheCat

    SmogTheCat Registered User

    Sep 1, 2005
    45
    Italy
    yesterday we toke the form for the nursery home for grandmother. On Monday we will ask in other nursery homes... we need a solution as soon as possible.
    Yesterday we discovered very bad things about grandmother.
    Since a few weeks (or months) she is aggressive with grandfather: sometimes she didn't cook for him and forbid him to take something to eat.
    Today we started to take away knifes from her home... we are worried she can use it in the wrong way.
    The big problem is that we have no other persone who care them... so since a couple of days we are providind by ourself (My mum, dad and me) but we can't continue... So we are looking for someone who can help us... but the problem is: will Grandmother accept him/her ???
    We also discovered that grandfather isn't incontinent... he **** in bed when he is alone at home with grandmother. My Dad spent a couple of night with him and he never **** in bed. The same happens last Thursday morning when he was at home withe per persone who care him, without grandmother (she was at my house).
    Yesterday grandmother became aggressive with me... I was scared because she tried to hit me a couple of time. Fortunately nothing happened...
    I hope we can find a place in a nursery home for grandmohter as soon as possible.
    My Mum is very tired and worried in particular for his Dad....
     
  18. KarenC

    KarenC Registered User

    Jun 2, 2005
    122
    Los Angeles, USA
    Hi SmogTheCat,

    I'm sorry things have come to such a crisis. The potential bright side is, it may get things moving toward getting your grandmother into a nursing home so things will settle down again. It may be a difficult transition, but it sounds like it is time.

    Remember what they told you at the emergency room, and if your grandmother is presenting a threat to you or other family members or herself, call the police. I don't know how the system works there in Italy, but here that kind of situation would end up with the person in hospital for at least a few days. It is not a great situation, but could give you a more time to find a care home.

    We went through a crisis a bit like this with my mother. She was already in an assisted living home, but she got so aggressive that they could not handle her. There was an incident in the middle of the night when the nurse at the home had to call an ambulance to take her to the ER. The next few weeks were crazy. My mother was briefly in four hospitals, and we were going crazy trying to work with the system on her behalf. The outcome was it was becoming obvious she could no longer stay at the same home, but needed to move to a specialized Alzheimer's home. Fortuntately we got some good leads and were able to place her in a good Alzheimer's home quickly.

    The first few weeks there she was depressed and unhappy and hated the place. Then she got used to it and has generally been quite content there.

    Good luck!

    Karen
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.