What Financial Records do we need to keep?

Discussion in 'I care for a person with dementia' started by bobblehat, Aug 24, 2016.

  1. Jessbow

    Jessbow Registered User

    Have a spare mug on the shelf in the kitchen, just shove the receipts in as and when, and empty at the end of each month into an envelope.
    I tried really hard, when I had an ambiguous receipt ( most now actually state what your bought) I'd write on the back at the time (as I walked away from the till) and always kept mums money in *her *purse ( petty cash ..£100 from the bank at a time)

    Just keep Your receipts separate from Mums, and ideally money too
  2. nita

    nita Registered User

    Dec 30, 2011
    Saffie, it might be different in my case because my Mum originally had very little, well under the threshold. It has only mounted up since she's been ill and not using much money and she gets the higher rate attendance allowance. So sad that she's never had such an income before and now she can't spend it on clothes and things she would once have enjoyed. She has never had to pay care home fees, only part-payment for agency carers. I just pay for her pads (continence service ones not good enough), personal care and continence items, nightwear, chiropodist, etc.

    We were originally in the minimal supervision category but they have now done away with those categories and substituted others and everybody's finances are to be scrutinised. I will dig out the newsletter which gives details of the new system.

    I don't know why I have not been asked for annual statements. I am prepared to give them but I haven't questioned it!

  3. netsy22

    netsy22 Registered User

    Oct 31, 2015
    I would think that would be fine.
  4. Aisling

    Aisling Registered User

    Dec 5, 2015

    Just my opinion but POA scares me !! It involves enormous trust. If I need to sign POA in the future I hope I can stipulate exactly how any money I have is to be used. I have always given excellent gifts to my family ( my decision) but my future may involve an illness that warrants POA. Then I will be trusting people with POA to use whatever I have for my care and needs only. I would not be able to make decisions regarding gifts etc. and I don't want anyone else to make decisions based on what I used to do.

    My OH is is a nursing home now and I have POA. Obviously he gave it to me when in good health. Cost of care here is horrific here and also involves part of our home. I now live on very little but I keep receipts for everything I buy for OH. He used to buy me lovely presents but obviously he can't do that now. Nothing matters to me now except that he gets the best possible care which he is getting. I am involved in his care plans, medications etc.

    Another soapbox of mine is to stress the importance of making wills.

  5. Slugsta

    Slugsta Registered User

    In some ways, I think I am glad that Mum doesn't have enough funds to ever be able to pay for her own care. Her life savings amount to around £3000, so at least I know that deprivation will not be a problem for us!
  6. Chemmy

    Chemmy Registered User

    Nov 7, 2011
    I've just looked up the Irish system, Aisling, and I can see that, unlike in the UK, the home isn't completely disregarded from the financial assessment if the spouse is still living in it. Interesting.


    Your changing views on gifts once you might need care are also very relevant to this discussion. Presumably such guidelines for attorneys can be specified when drafting the POA? But it just goes to show that attorneys could easily make presumptions about the donor's wishes that aren't correct.

    Again, maybe the question of what is in the donor's best interests is the one that should be paramount?
  7. Aisling

    Aisling Registered User

    Dec 5, 2015
    Thank you Chemmy. System here is different. Never enough information. We learn as we go along. Totally agree with you re " what is in the donor's best interest?? It should really be part of the legal process of POA. Yes there should be guidelines when drafting POA and the doner's wishes should be protected by law.

  8. Shedrech

    Shedrech Volunteer Moderator

    Dec 15, 2012
    Interesting, Aisling, that you write this:
    personally, that's how I think about dad's financial affairs - I know what he DID in the past; I have little idea of what he decided not to do (though he did mention a few things which give me an inkling into his reasoning on matters); I find that as soon as someone else mentions what he 'used to do' or what he 'would want to do', I am uncomfortable - no-one can read someone else's mind - and I know some of the things I used to do I now wouldn't do again ever - so, I believe, the minimum is to be done for others with a donors funds; for me, it's dad's money, it is to be spent on him

    and that "in best interests", I think, needs to be thought of/altered to "in best financial interests" since the POA is for finance & property; it's not about the past or what might have made a donor feel good before and it's certainly not about giving/loaning/gifting money to anyone else - the duty, to me, is to conserve the funds as far as possible whilst paying all necessary fees and expenses of the donor

    I don't really see why any adult needs to have gifts from someone who has lost the capacity to deal with their own financial affairs - I do understand that Attorneys may want to continue to make gifts to children (to me, under 18) to whom the donor regularly gave birthday + Christmas presents - and I do understand that a donor may want to put a tenner or so in a card to a child themselves

    however, the OPG wording re POA seems to leave leeway for Attorneys to make decisions - and I've certainly had thrown at me that 'others interpret that differently' when someone wants to gift some of a donor's money; and when a loan was given 'that's what the donor would have wanted'; 'that's what families do, they help each other out'; 'the donor adored his grandchildren so would want to help them' ....

    thing is, I doubt donors would be thinking about all of this when signing POAs - which grandparent wants to put 'no more gifts'? - and though I advocate having POAs signed if the donor will understand what is being agreed to at that moment but may have forgotten a short time later, I wonder if, under those circumstances, the donor is able to go into detail about guidelines as to how to deal with the funds

    I guess most donors will choose close family members to be their Attorneys, which in many ways seems very sensible; in others it immediately creates a potential conflict of interest - and given that there is effectively very little oversight of how Attorneys (rather than Deputies) deal with a donor's affairs, I guess most actions are not questioned by anyone else .... though I'm not suggesting that most Attorneys act inappropriately, many seem to worry over every penny and even put themselves out of pocket for fear of doing something wrong, which is a different concern, and probably what the OP had in mind ...

    sorry; gone 'off piste' - I'm in a bad mood and probably looking at the bleak side of things - apologies - this is all my personal opinions and it's not gone down well with another; maybe I'm just 'tight' and living up to a Yorkshire stereotype and should loosen up

    best wishes to all
  9. Aisling

    Aisling Registered User

    Dec 5, 2015

    You are spot on and I agree with every word. Amazing how some people think they know what others would like to do!!!!! What I did in the past is in the past....... It is not a template for people to use in my future.

    Aisling x
  10. Pickles53

    Pickles53 Registered User

    Feb 25, 2014
    Radcliffe on Trent
    Me too, Aisling and Shedrech. What you give when you are well and can assess the impact on your own finances is very different to what is financially sensible when you may need every penny to fund the best care.
  11. jaymor

    jaymor Volunteer Moderator

    Jul 14, 2006
    100% in agreement with you Pickles, Aisling and Shedrech.
  12. Chloe3233

    Chloe3233 Registered User

    Jul 28, 2017
  13. Shedrech

    Shedrech Volunteer Moderator

    Dec 15, 2012
    hi @Chloe3233
    I keep all statements and have for years, just as info for me and just in case
    but I wouldn't panic if you haven't got the paperwork from years past, I believe they can be obtained from banks should they be needed
    as I understand it, you can't as an Attorney be held responsible for any financial transactions before you actively took on the management of the donor's affairs
  14. Duggies-girl

    Duggies-girl Registered User

    Sep 6, 2017
    I have POA for dad but I don't actively manage his money, I have no access to his account. All dads bills are paid by direct debit and all his pensions etc go straight into his bank account so no worries there. He draws some cash out twice a month and keeps it in his wallet (he needs help to do this) This way he thinks he is in total command of his money and he is really, also I don't think he is at risk from anyone so I let him keep his own money.

    If I take dad shopping then I pack and he pays, he doesn't keep the receipt. If I go shopping for dad then I give him his change and the receipt which he throws in the bin.

    Everything is recorded on his bank statements including his cash withdrawals and any cheques he may write out and I consider that is good enough for anyone. I am not messing around with keeping records of his day to day spending.
  15. Chloe3233

    Chloe3233 Registered User

    Jul 28, 2017
    NEW DEPUTY CAN ANYONE HELP ME Hi im a deputy of finances opg 103 HAW do should i do spread sheets ? PLEAS
  16. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    North Manchester
  17. Delphie

    Delphie Registered User

    Dec 14, 2011
    As nitram's link shows, you can do the annual report online. You can input stuff as it comes up and save, then go back and continue when you have more transactions or information.

    That said, while I like the overall format and how everything is presented once done, reconciling figures within the report feels awkward to me, so I still work with a spreadsheet. I like seeing all the information in one place, all reconciled. Once it's done, I transfer it to the online bit. I'm possibly making more work for myself but I like the clarity.

    My spreadsheet has a tab which reconciles the main bank account/statements, so within that I have a date column, plus columns for each of the sections I'll be populating within the online report. So money going in (pension, rental incomes etc) and money going out (deputy expenses, clothes, care home fees etc). I have a formula which reconciles as I go so if there's a discrepancy I can pick it up right away. It's usually down to me making a mistake (£7.99 being typed in as £70.99 or something).

    My other tabs are for other (almost inactive) accounts and things like mileage and anything else which might be useful for the report or for me, should I need to provide further information.

    I hope that helps. My advice is find a way that suits you and that makes sure you understand clearly where you are with things. And don't worry too much. It's all very doable.
  18. Elle3

    Elle3 Registered User

    Jun 30, 2016
    Interesting reading about everyone’s opinions on dealing with a donors finances, especially regarding the giving of gifts. I have LPA for my dad who is now in a care home. I registered it with the bank Nov 2016, from that point I started to keep records of dad’s expenditure, however when I registered it, rather than not allow dad to access his own money via the bank as this would have caused major issues. I agreed he still had some capacity but set up rules with the bank to only allow him to withdraw a total of £100 a week in cash (dad visited the bank daily to withdraw cash and at times he would withdraw £1,000 at a time so I put a stop to that). The problem is this cash got used in various ways I can not account for, including buying food etc, losing, hiding, burning and giving away. It’s not a problem anymore though as he’s been in a care home since April.

    Regarding the giving of gifts, I’ve been trying to decide if I should continue with this now. Since my mum his wife died in 2008 dad has always given us £20 each for birthdays in a card, there are four of us, 2 grandchildren and me and my husband and £100 each at Christmas plus £50 towards food for Christmas as he always spent a few days with us. This was easier for him than buying actual gifts which my mum took charge of. I stopped taking the £50 towards food though about 4/5 years ago.

    I personally think my dad would be upset if I stopped doing this as he has always been insistent that we did this, he’s even tried sharing his money with me at other times in the past when he had capacity, especially since mum died he always believed half was mine and I would just humour him and tell him I didn’t need it or to give it to me another time. Even now in the care home and he definitely has no capacity and has little communication skills, he still feels the need to share with me, ie his food, blanket, clothes etc. He hasn’t lost that. So I think I’ve answered my own concerns and I will continue at least for this year and then just see how I feel about it next year.

    It is hard trying to do what is right.
  19. Chloe3233

    Chloe3233 Registered User

    Jul 28, 2017
    Thank you for your help advice
  20. Chloe3233

    Chloe3233 Registered User

    Jul 28, 2017
    Hi may i ask do you just seperate money in and ou and cash and refunds as im a opg 103 and the review form is differant to others ??

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