What dangers lurk with application for Continuing Care

Discussion in 'ARCHIVE FORUM: Support discussions' started by BeckyJan, May 11, 2007.

  1. BeckyJan

    BeckyJan Registered User

    Nov 28, 2005
    18,972
    Derbyshire
    This is to do with my brother (not my husband this time). He has been resident in a well known home for disabled people for 18 yrs. - he has been very happy and generally health has been ok. He has deteriorated over the past twelve months and the home now tell me he is on 'nursing care'.

    For many years he paid full fees, then this was scaled down when he reached around £18,000 (the level that applied then). Now he contributes his pension and the local Council top up. I have just been asked to sign another agreement which confirms this (the full fee is alarmingly high). (I am POA).

    I have been tipped off that I could apply for CCare - BUT will I open a can of worms?? He is so happy there I do not want a situation where he could be moved because of high fees. (His money is his - I am only a minor in his Will, and his two children who never visit are the beneficiaries). It could be a disaster if he was moved just for the sake of a greater benefit of his children. BUT if he is entitled to it, and entitled to stay where he is - then on principle maybe I should go ahead.

    Sorry for the ramble - any views would be appreciated.
    Thanks Beckyjan
     
  2. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,418
    An application for NHS continuing care couldn't force you to move him from his current home, I don't think. After all, if they attempted to push that scenario you could simply say thanks, but no thanks. They might be a bit surprised but they can't force anyone to accept money :D In fact Health Service Circular / Local Authority Circular HSC 2001/015: LAC (2001)18 states
    "the setting of the care should not be the sole or main determinant of eligibility.
    Continuing NHS health care does not have to be provided in an NHS hospital and
    could be provided in a nursing home, hospice or the individual’s own home; "

    Jennifer
     
  3. BeckyJan

    BeckyJan Registered User

    Nov 28, 2005
    18,972
    Derbyshire
    Thanks for your reply Jennifer. It was the slight element of doubt that has made me post the question. I just do not want to open a 'can of worms'. I was thinking on the same lines as you. I will dwell on it over the weekend - phone the SW on Monday to warn him a letter is on the way - and wait for his comments. As you say I can always back off if there is an inclination to move him to find cheaper accommodation. I am certain his present home will support me.

    I appreciate your support - its always harder to 'decide' for someone else.
    Beckyjan
     
  4. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,418
    Becky Jan, I did find this http://www.official-documents.gov.uk/document/cm66/6650/6650.pdf

    Para 32 states this
    32. In addition to this, we have also received anecdotal evidence suggesting
    that if a self-funding resident in a care home becomes eligible for continuing
    care, because of current rates of NHS continuing care funding, the home may
    face a drop in the fees paid and the resident may have to move to a different
    care home, or be asked to top up the NHS contribution to their care costs.
    Not only does this present huge upheaval for residents, potentially forced to
    move from familiar surroundings to a different care home which is not their
    first choice, it could also mean that care homes are less likely to request
    continuing care assessments for their residents (particularly for those who
    are self-funding) if their condition worsens. We recommend that, as part of
    its review of continuing care, the Government investigates this apparent
    perverse outcome of its continuing care policy.

    I imagine the home in question must have some experience in this area. Have you asked them?
     
  5. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    68,659
    Kent
    Hi Becky Jan, Sorry I can`t offer any words of wisdom.

    I hope I`m never faced with a dilemma like this as it seems just too complex for words.

    Can only offer commiserations.

    With love
     
  6. BeckyJan

    BeckyJan Registered User

    Nov 28, 2005
    18,972
    Derbyshire
    #6 BeckyJan, May 12, 2007
    Last edited: May 12, 2007
    Great help - thanks

    Jennifer - you are wonderful to have found this for me.

    It answers a little query I had. The info I received was from a the Accounts Clerk (who is kind and considerate especially now husband also ill). She told me my brother was 'nursing' care - but she did say it was strange that the Nurse Manager (another friend within the Home) had not mentioned this to me.

    Perhaps this is the reason. I will phone again with more knowledge.

    You will now understand my reason for posting - I could be opening a 'can of worms' and the material gain will be for his children who do not visit!!! IS IT WORTH IT - no because my brother is so happy where he is and they know how to handle him. I could not bear for him to change, especially with the problems at home.

    It is a complex issue and I understand why there were few replies - but as so often on this forum your wisdom is invaluable, Jennifer - many thanks. :D :D :) :)
     
  7. Skye

    Skye Registered User

    Aug 29, 2006
    17,000
    SW Scotland

    BeckyJan, you're quite right! This one is way 'beyond my ken'.

    However I wish you luck in sorting it out. You now have all the info., thanks to jennifer.

    Love,
     
  8. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,418
    Becky Jan - I've been thinking about this and I would STRONGLY suggest you get the necessary input from your friends at the home BEFORE contacting the social worker. My reasoning is this: LAs are under tremendous pressure to trim all outgogings. If you make them think that they may be able to get your brother off their "books" they may not look entirely at his best interests. From their point of view it would be ideal to get the NHS to fund his care, and if the NHS would pay a similar amount to what they are paying, that would be fine, particularly as your brother would then have his pension for any extras. However, unless/until you are certain of that I wouldn't give them any ideas if I were you. I can imagine that at some point in the furure THEY may raise the issue, but until you know what the score is, I would be very hesitant about stirring that particular pot.

    Jennifer
     
  9. BeckyJan

    BeckyJan Registered User

    Nov 28, 2005
    18,972
    Derbyshire
    Yes Jennifer - I agree with you so will be ringing the home on Monday. I have strong feelings that it will be wise to leave things as they are but will let you know. You have been great at helping me to get my head around this one.

    Beckyjan
     
  10. BeckyJan

    BeckyJan Registered User

    Nov 28, 2005
    18,972
    Derbyshire
    Stephen - yes I will most definitely sign the petition. BUT - in my brother's case the option for free NHS C Care is just not there. The weekly cost of his home is around £1000.00 per week!! The council do subsidise this as he only pays the amount he can afford from pension etc. IF we claim free funding then the SS Dept will most certainly move him to a cheaper place. I cannot allow that to happen.
    However, should they try to move him anyway (without a claim for continuing care) then I shall make it VERY public - MPs, Watchdog the lot (I could do without the fight as I have a husband with AD to care for).

    So I am most interested in your petition but somehow this business of moving to cheaper places when free care is given just has to be addressed. (My brother has been in the home for 17 years much of which was self funded).

    Sorry to ramble - I do get on my hobby horse with this one. Unfortunately many people do not understand it until it happens to them.

    Good luck Beckyjan
     

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