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Wandering dementia residents

Jackamus

Registered User
Aug 16, 2018
21
I suspect that this system would work best in a home that takes both dementia and non-dementia residents and also homes that only take people in the early stages. In these sort of homes the management often views going into other peoples rooms as a big problem and it is often a reason to ask residents with dementia to leave (other problems are resistance to personal care and being up at night), so I could see that these sort of places would be enthusiastic, although I suspect that it would only enable people with dementia to stay there for an extra few months, before there were other problems

My mum was in a dedicated dementia unit that would look after people right up to the end and could deal with almost anything. For them, going into other peoples rooms was no big deal as they had far more challenging behaviour to deal with. TBH I couldnt see them being prepared to go for this sort of system
When you say 'no big deal' because of dealing with more challenging behaviour, this may be OK of management but certainly not for relatives. The challenging behaviour of some residents should not be a reason for not adopting the system for the non-challenging residents.
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
12,942
South coast
When you say 'no big deal' because of dealing with more challenging behaviour, this may be OK of management but certainly not for relatives.
But I am a relative and I dont and didnt, consider it a big deal

My post, however, was in reply to you saying that the care homes you have contacted were all very interested.
 

love.dad.but..

Registered User
Jan 16, 2014
4,540
Kent
When you say 'no big deal' because of dealing with more challenging behaviour, this may be OK of management but certainly not for relatives. The challenging behaviour of some residents should not be a reason for not adopting the system for the non-challenging residents.
I see but also wonder although you say one size does not fit all..it will have to be a system that does work and is workable in practice for all...non challenging and challenging residents and their changing needs. I wish you luck with your project.
 

Jackamus

Registered User
Aug 16, 2018
21
I see but also wonder although you say one size does not fit all..it will have to be a system that does work and is workable in practice for all...non challenging and challenging residents and their changing needs. I wish you luck with your project.
This is a system that can be fitted and used to suit whatever conditions apply. If some relatives do not want to use it then they don't have to by making it manual. If the room is vacated perhaps the next resident would want to use it.
It will always work where it is wanted.
I would be interested to know if a relative would like to see it used and if not then why not?
 

Louise7

Registered User
Mar 25, 2016
2,279
From what you're saying this is being done more for relatives than the residents? If a resident doesn't want anyone else walking into their room then that is obviously something that the staff will need to manage but from experience (of 2 different types of homes with wanderers in) it isn't something that seems to overly bother residents. In my Mum's home there is a lady who is constantly going into other people's rooms. She used to be a nurse so is checking to see that everyone is OK, and if my Mum is in bed when the lady comes in Mum just says hello to her. None of the other residents show any signs of being bothered by this either. She does sometimes pick up things like books or the TV remote but the staff always know to find them in her room, and no one leaves anything valuable around in any case.

Have you canvassed the relatives/residents in your wife's home - what do they think? You mention that cost is a factor for the homes. What sort of prices are you looking at? I think what you're proposing is going to appeal to a relatively small target audience so may be better marketed as something which some relatives might be prepared to pay for themselves, rather than a home paying to put the equipment in place for all with a potentially limited uptake.
 

Amy in the US

Registered User
Feb 28, 2015
4,617
USA
This is very interesting.

I wonder how much these products will cost the care homes, and how expensive they will be to maintain and replace.

In addition, with the facial recognition technology, there is the issue of data storage and privacy. (I personally would never permit this for my PWD.)

And of course there would need to be a failsafe override so a room could be entered quickly by staff in case of an emergency or urgent situation.

I'm sure you have thought those issues through, of course; I am only mentioning them as they were some of my initial questions and thoughts.

I would also like to see the design for the wristband or key fob that is hypoallergenic, won't irritate or tear fragile skin, or the wearer. My PWD has had a lot of tactile issues with their dementia. When they have been in hospital, they have worried endlessly at the ID bracelet and I think it would be the same with this sort of scheme, although otherwise it do think it's a clever design. I assume that by placing one's hand on the door handle, the bracelet is in correct proximity to unlock the door and permit entry?

I admit my first thought about the key fob bracelet was that it was like the "wander guards" used by some facilities I have seen, which bear a distinct resemblance (emotionally) to the monitoring ankle bracelets some convicts on parole must wear.

I would be very interested to hear how this progresses and wish you well in your business venture.
 

Jackamus

Registered User
Aug 16, 2018
21
From what you're saying this is being done more for relatives than the residents? If a resident doesn't want anyone else walking into their room then that is obviously something that the staff will need to manage but from experience (of 2 different types of homes with wanderers in) it isn't something that seems to overly bother residents. In my Mum's home there is a lady who is constantly going into other people's rooms. She used to be a nurse so is checking to see that everyone is OK, and if my Mum is in bed when the lady comes in Mum just says hello to her. None of the other residents show any signs of being bothered by this either. She does sometimes pick up things like books or the TV remote but the staff always know to find them in her room, and no one leaves anything valuable around in any case.

Have you canvassed the relatives/residents in your wife's home - what do they think? You mention that cost is a factor for the homes. What sort of prices are you looking at? I think what you're proposing is going to appeal to a relatively small target audience so may be better marketed as something which some relatives might be prepared to pay for themselves, rather than a home paying to put the equipment in place for all with a potentially limited uptake.
I'm sorry if I have created the impression that I was only interested in helping the relatives. My motivation for doing was out of a love and care for my wife. When I first proposed the idea to the care home manager she said it would take a lot of pressure of the staff. Various relatives told me that they too thought it a good idea.

Here is a list of problems that I know happened at the care where my wife lives and in other homes.
1 Her glasses would go missing,
2 Photos taken off the wall and removed.
3 Photos frames broken.
4 A resident defecating in another's room.
5 Removal of food that could be dangerous to residents with food or health allergies.
6 Having to call staff to remove a reluctant resident from her room.
7 A resident shouting at another resident to leave their room.
8 Removal of other objects.
9 The possible safety of bedridden residents who may be able to communicate (my wife is one).

All this can be stopped by the adoption of our system. The question of cost will be determined by our market research. If there is little or no interest in the system then it will be abandoned.

The question of a relative being given the choice to purchase has already been considered and could be an option for some care homes.
 

Louise7

Registered User
Mar 25, 2016
2,279
I'm sorry if I have created the impression that I was only interested in helping the relatives. My motivation for doing was out of a love and care for my wife.
I meant that these issues seemed to be more of a concern for relatives than residents. Obviously if this sort of activity is distressing your wife then it's understandable that you want to find a way to help and make things better.

Regarding costs, I understand that sale prices would be dependant on demand but wondered how much a door handle, wristband etc costs to manufacture?
 

Jackamus

Registered User
Aug 16, 2018
21
This is very interesting.

I wonder how much these products will cost the care homes, and how expensive they will be to maintain and replace.

In addition, with the facial recognition technology, there is the issue of data storage and privacy. (I personally would never permit this for my PWD.)

And of course there would need to be a failsafe override so a room could be entered quickly by staff in case of an emergency or urgent situation.

I'm sure you have thought those issues through, of course; I am only mentioning them as they were some of my initial questions and thoughts.

I would also like to see the design for the wristband or key fob that is hypoallergenic, won't irritate or tear fragile skin, or the wearer. My PWD has had a lot of tactile issues with their dementia. When they have been in hospital, they have worried endlessly at the ID bracelet and I think it would be the same with this sort of scheme, although otherwise it do think it's a clever design. I assume that by placing one's hand on the door handle, the bracelet is in correct proximity to unlock the door and permit entry?

I admit my first thought about the key fob bracelet was that it was like the "wander guards" used by some facilities I have seen, which bear a distinct resemblance (emotionally) to the monitoring ankle bracelets some convicts on parole must wear.

I would be very interested to hear how this progresses and wish you well in your business venture.
We are proposing to guarantee the system for life. If any one item of the system fails then we will replace it.
That battery life is expected to be years and the rechargeable batteries charged every eight months.

What does PWD mean?

Many commercially available face locks are made for workplaces and can contain data for 100 faces and also have a download/upload feature for data collection.

Our facial handle will be able to store only the residence face. When a new resident occupies the room the original face will be deleted and a new one scanned in.There will be no download/upload feature as it is unnecessary. The handle can be manually activated using either a pass number, for staff or visitors or manual key for staff only.

It must be remembered that many residents are not able to find their own room and would have to be escorted by a carer who would open the door. Perhaps in this case there would be no need for a resident to wear a wristband.

Your mentioning of these issues is welcome and as you can see above we have already thought of them plus many more.

Since wristband material technology is commonplace today finding a suitable material is not a problem. Even so if there was problem with some people then a fob attached to clothing would also work.

The handle is activated by the resident being being within a certain range of the handle.

I do understand the comparison with electronic tagging. However there is some research into detecting if a person has a fall. The nature of the current technology would mean a more sizeable detector that a wristband. This could mean perhaps using something like an ankle bracelet.

Regarding the business venture, once we have completed our market research and it is favourable, we will be looking for investors to carry the project forward to mass production.
 

love.dad.but..

Registered User
Jan 16, 2014
4,540
Kent
As I posted before I think the door barrier would not be effective to determined wanderers however I think your handle idea is interesting perhaps with tweaks. I have tried to apply your idea to how I know dad and other wanderers were in his NH and also the communicative or otherwise bed bound residents. I can see that for some it may have worked effectively but for others or when their dementia stage changed introducing different challenges or declining understanding not so well. I would still be a bit concerned that for some who still have some... even though limited ...ability to react or listen would be further withdrawn from care home life it could be very isolating to be in a closed room all the time without at times being able to hear life going on around them...if this is their choice that is fine but otherwise in some homes the only human interaction would be at times of meals or personal care.
 

Jackamus

Registered User
Aug 16, 2018
21
As I posted before I think the door barrier would not be effective to determined wanderers however I think your handle idea is interesting perhaps with tweaks. I have tried to apply your idea to how I know dad and other wanderers were in his NH and also the communicative or otherwise bed bound residents. I can see that for some it may have worked effectively but for others or when their dementia stage changed introducing different challenges or declining understanding not so well. I would still be a bit concerned that for some who still have some... even though limited ...ability to react or listen would be further withdrawn from care home life it could be very isolating to be in a closed room all the time without at times being able to hear life going on around them...if this is their choice that is fine but otherwise in some homes the only human interaction would be at times of meals or personal care.
There seems to be some scepticism regarding the door barrier. The only way to find out would be for a care home to test it.
Our system can be either automatic or selective according to circumstances. Do remember that residents come and go and therefore having the system on all doors will cover almost any situation. Since the system is retro-fitted I suppose a care home could fit them as required but this would entail a level of installation work.
 

Canadian Joanne

Volunteer Moderator
Apr 8, 2005
16,574
66
Toronto, Canada
The nursing home my mother was in handled wanderers by putting a bright yellow band across the door (much like the blue one shown above but much wider) with STOP in huge letters on it. It looked like giant police tape. This was used for one or two residents' room who objected to people walking in and was also used for quarantine purposes. It worked quite well.
 

love.dad.but..

Registered User
Jan 16, 2014
4,540
Kent
The nursing home my mother was in handled wanderers by putting a bright yellow band across the door (much like the blue one shown above but much wider) with STOP in huge letters on it. It looked like giant police tape. This was used for one or two residents' room who objected to people walking in and was also used for quarantine purposes. It worked quite well.
I think it will work for some...in dad's NH they used similar for the open plan kitchen entrance..however dad at 86 and fairly mobile tried to climb over it and I stopped him many times from going under usually to his increasing frustration which caused agitation. Everything is worth a try though. Dad was one of the worst culprits and they tried hanging a fairly wide mobile head height which clattered when touched in one of the bedroom doorways ...it put him off for a few days but then he pulled it down! His working life involved problem solving and I guess even with declining dementia where there was a will he often found a way!
 

Jackamus

Registered User
Aug 16, 2018
21
The nursing home my mother was in handled wanderers by putting a bright yellow band across the door (much like the blue one shown above but much wider) with STOP in huge letters on it. It looked like giant police tape. This was used for one or two residents' room who objected to people walking in and was also used for quarantine purposes. It worked quite well.
Thank you this is very useful information! This shows that there is a great discrepancy between how different homes handle the same situation.
 

Jackamus

Registered User
Aug 16, 2018
21
I think it will work for some...in dad's NH they used similar for the open plan kitchen entrance..however dad at 86 and fairly mobile tried to climb over it and I stopped him many times from going under usually to his increasing frustration which caused agitation. Everything is worth a try though. Dad was one of the worst culprits and they tried hanging a fairly wide mobile head height which clattered when touched in one of the bedroom doorways ...it put him off for a few days but then he pulled it down! His working life involved problem solving and I guess even with declining dementia where there was a will he often found a way!
I can understand your dad because there is a resident at my wife's home where all day long he would wander around seemingly checking windows a wall fixtures.
 

love.dad.but..

Registered User
Jan 16, 2014
4,540
Kent
@love.dad.but.. I had to smile when reading about your dad's determination.
Haha oh yes Canadian Joanne:D...he kept NH staff and I well and truly on our toes. On the whole he was well monitored and either diverted distracted or prevented from going into another bedroom but sometimes when staff were busy it was difficult and if he had settled without understanding no amount of encouraging, telling or gently persuasive manhandling would shift him. I always said to people his poor start in life and then sheer dogged determination that enabled him to reach the top of his career which I and others could see clearly in his dementia was then biting me on the ...! I can look back now and chuckle at some of his antics but not at many at the time.