Waiting Lists For Care Homes

[Firecatcher]

How difficult or straightforward is it to find a place in a care home. My Mum with Alzheimer’s has deteriorated significantly since being diagnosed two and a half years ago. My Dad is struggling to cope but persistently refuses any outside help. I live over a 100 miles away and work full time. I don’t want to be a carer and in any case with the rising costs of living can’t afford to give up work. I’m actually doing overtime to pay for the petrol costs of the return journey when I visit. I suspect Mum will outlive Dad and wonder what would happen if he died or became ill as he’s the sole carer. There’s no other family to help.
Would I be expected to sort out a care home or would social services step in if there was a sudden emergency?My Mum would be self funding initially although the money they have won’t last long. I have a POA for health and finance. Is it worth putting my Mum’s name forward to local care homes now and can I do this without my Dad’s agreement as he also has POA. He isn’t very realistic about the future and won’t make any provision.

 

[Firecatcher]

it’s disheartening to see this post has had 144 views but zero responses. As an only child I feel absolutely depressed and despairing about what potentially lies ahead of me regarding my elderly mother. We didn’t have a close or supportive relationship in the past and I’m still trying to achieve things in my own life which I don’t want compromised. The pandemic has already caused me enough damage - financial and otherwise. The questions I asked in the post were quite reasonable and are issues that some people would have experienced. When people post on here it’s often because they are desperate and feel extremely alone. A lack of response simply amplifies those feelings.

 

[Helly68]

@Firecatcher - sorry that you feel depressed. I am afraid I had not seen this post before.
It sounds like a difficult situation, but it may well be worth putting your Mum's name down for a care home. I "encouraged" my father considerably to take this step for my Mum. He was her carer and it was making both of them very ill.
Looking at future solutions can help manage the unpredicatability of dementia. We viewed homes for my mother and she went for "day care" at one (which we paid for ) to give my Dad a break and to make her eventual permanent move there, easier.
It is harder if your Dad refuses help. My father (also now with alzheimers) is fiercely independent and whilst I don't want to change this, it can make some things harder.
My Mum did very well once in a care home and they cared for her until the end, despite challenging behaviour. I hope you are able to find a way to plan for the future.

 

[lollyc]

I only have experience of respite, not permanent care, and that was very much a case of what was available at the time.

From other posts I believe you can put your mother's name on a waiting list of a home you deem suitable and wait for a place to come up. However, it sounds as if your father may not be agreeable to that course of action.

Should a crisis happen - i.e your father becomes too ill to manage, or dies - SS would, no doubt, push you to become involved in her care, though you are not obliged to do this. I imagine they would provide an emergency placement, but as sole remaining POA, and your mother self - funding, you could simply arrange a care home place for her.

Personally I would investigate likely looking care homes - check what behaviours they won't cope with etc., will they keep mum when her money runs out? - and put her name on the waiting list of any that suit. You can always decline the place if offered. Even if your dad refuses to consider this as an option , you will have a plan in place, should the need arise, or he changes his mind. Knowing what you can / will do does make this nightmare a little easier.

 

[GillP]

Good morning @Firecatcher , sorry to read of your concerns regarding your Mum. I’m not sure what advice I can give you.

You pose several questions. It is so difficult as your Dad refuses to accept help. I think that regarding emergency care in the event of something happening to your father that Social Services would deal with it as your Mum is a vulnerable adult.

I wish you well in these difficult times. Try to take care of yourself.

 

[thistlejak]

Sorry you feel that the forum has not been supportive.
I will try to answer all your questions.
If your Dad were to fall ill you would not be expected to sort things out yourself - you would contact Social Services - emergency contact if out of hours - and they will put something into place. The local authority have a legal responsibility to look after your mum not you or your Dad - but sometimes you need to remind them of this. It might not be where you would choose but she would be safe until a permanent solution could be found.
With regards to self funding do your parents own their home? If they do and your mum is the only person left living there then SS would expect the house to be sold to fund further care if she went into fulltime care.
With regards to involving your Dad in putting mum's name on a waiting list - it depends on how the POA is worded - are you joint and several or just joint POA. If it is joint and several you can act on your own.
You can checkout care homes on line and make a list of some you might want to visit when you are at your parents house or you can look closer to you if you would wish her to be closer. If you want to move her close to you you might be better off talking to LA both where you are and where they are as there might have to be transfer of LA funding at some point.
If you put you mums' name on a waiting list you don't have to move her in when she gets to the top of the list if you don't want to at that time - she should stay there waiting for the next vacancy.
Hope this is some help.

 

[Sarasa]

So sorry your post got overlooked @Firecatcher.
As @Helly68 now would be a good time to look at a few care homes to get a feel for them. Last year we were looking at homes for both my mother and mother in law and it soon became obvious that a home that would suit one wouldn't suit the other. This site https://www.carehome.co.uk/ is useful for showing what is available in your area. Don't just go on reviews, but have a look and see what you think of them.
If you and your dad can act jointly and severally you can do this without his agreement, though if you can get him on board that is probably a good thing.
As for money running out. Several homes we saw did say that if a resident had been there a couple of years they would accept the SS rate if needed.

 

[canary]

Hello @Firecatcher and welcome to Talking Point

You are in a difficult position with your dad not being willing to consider the future. Is he the only person named on the POA?

How easy it is to find somewhere at short notice depends very much on the area you are looking at, what stage your mum is at and whether the care homes happen to have vacancies at the time. I dont know whether you would be able to add your mums name to a care home waiting list, but Im sure someone else will know. Nevertheless, there is nothing stopping you from checking out care homes in the area and finding out which ones would be likely to accept your mum. As your mum is likely to need Local Authority assistance with the fees, do ask the care home whether they accept the Local Authority rate - otherwise the home would expect "top-up" fees, payable by the family (ie you).

PS Im sorry that your post got overlooked.
It is usual, though, for thread to have many more views than posts. The reason for this is due to the presence of non-members (guests) and bots who are counted in the views, but are not able to post. I checked up before starting to write this and, at that time, there were 94 accounts viewing this forum, but only 10 of them were members - and not all members feel able to post.
Im sure you will get more replies
xx

 

[Izzy]

I’m so sorry your post was overlooked @Firecatcher.

I’ve no personal experience of care homes as both my mum and my husband lived at home with me until they died.

I wondered if this factsheet would be of any help -

Care homes: Who chooses and who pays?

Read our advice and information about choosing and paying for full-time care.

www.alzheimers.org.uk

You might also want to give the Dementia Connect Helpline a ring to talk things through with them.

Dementia Support Line

If you need dementia support, we’re here for you. Get personalised information, support and advice by calling us on 0333 150 3456.

www.alzheimers.org.uk

 

[Jaded'n'faded]

I don't think you get asked to produce a PoA when approaching a care home - I didn't. In the end, as PoA, your job is to act in your mum's best interests. (Same for your dad but he's unable to see things clearly.) You say your father is struggling already yet he won't accept outside help, so things are - unfortunately - likely to reach crisis point soon as your mum continues to deteriorate.

I would just go ahead - research care homes and get your mum's name down on a few lists. I would also ask the homes if they offer respite care. If you could work towards getting your dad to accept your mum going into respite care for a couple of weeks, to give him a break, that would be a start. Perhaps you could 'sell' it to him that if he doesn't get a break himself, he'll be too exhasuted to look after your mum. And he may come round to the idea of making it permanent.

The other thing I'd suggest: if he won't accept outside help for your mum, would he accept other help such as a cleaner and/or gardener so that he wasn't having to do everything? It can't be easy for him. Or you.

 

[Firecatcher]

So sorry your post got overlooked @Firecatcher.
As @Helly68 now would be a good time to look at a few care homes to get a feel for them. Last year we were looking at homes for both my mother and mother in law and it soon became obvious that a home that would suit one wouldn't suit the other. This site https://www.carehome.co.uk/ is useful for showing what is available in your area. Don't just go on reviews, but have a look and see what you think of them.
If you and your dad can act jointly and severally you can do this without his agreement, though if you can get him on board that is probably a good thing.
As for money running out. Several homes we saw did say that if a resident had been there a couple of years they would accept the SS rate if needed.

Many thanks for replying. I’ve checked the POA document and my Dad and I can act jointly and severally so,I will start contacting homes in my parents area even though. my Dad probably won’t be happy with this as he really doesn’t want to plan for the future.

 

[Firecatcher]

I don't think you get asked to produce a PoA when approaching a care home - I didn't. In the end, as PoA, your job is to act in your mum's best interests. (Same for your dad but he's unable to see things clearly.) You say your father is struggling already yet he won't accept outside help, so things are - unfortunately - likely to reach crisis point soon as your mum continues to deteriorate.

I would just go ahead - research care homes and get your mum's name down on a few lists. I would also ask the homes if they offer respite care. If you could work towards getting your dad to accept your mum going into respite care for a couple of weeks, to give him a break, that would be a start. Perhaps you could 'sell' it to him that if he doesn't get a break himself, he'll be too exhasuted to look after your mum. And he may come round to the idea of making it permanent.

The other thing I'd suggest: if he won't accept outside help for your mum, would he accept other help such as a cleaner and/or gardener so that he wasn't having to do everything? It can't be easy for him. Or you.

Many thanks for your reply. I will start contacting places. It’s unlikely my Dad would accept respite care as I’ve suggested this many times. I even found a day centre that were willing to assess my Mum up he turned that down. I’ve suggested both a cleaner and a gardener and he insists he can manage. I visit every few weeks as it’s a 3-4 hour journey one way and spend a couple of days cleaning, doing laundry and gardening. Although this is nothing compared to what some people do it’s a lot for me. I also find it difficult returning to the place where I grew up as I was relentlessly bullied there and still suffer PTSD as a result of what happened.

 

[Firecatcher]

Hello @Firecatcher and welcome to Talking Point

You are in a difficult position with your dad not being willing to consider the future. Is he the only person named on the POA?

How easy it is to find somewhere at short notice depends very much on the area you are looking at, what stage your mum is at and whether the care homes happen to have vacancies at the time. I dont know whether you would be able to add your mums name to a care home waiting list, but Im sure someone else will know. Nevertheless, there is nothing stopping you from checking out care homes in the area and finding out which ones would be likely to accept your mum. As your mum is likely to need Local Authority assistance with the fees, do ask the care home whether they accept the Local Authority rate - otherwise the home would expect "top-up" fees, payable by the family (ie you).

PS Im sorry that your post got overlooked.
It is usual, though, for thread to have many more views than posts. The reason for this is due to the presence of non-members (guests) and bots who are counted in the views, but are not able to post. I checked up before starting to write this and, at that time, there were 94 accounts viewing this forum, but only 10 of them were members - and not all members feel able to post.
Im sure you will get more replies
xx

Thanks for taking the time and trouble to reply. I have POA as well as my Dad and after checking the document have realised we can act. both jointly and severally. I would certainly not agree to pay any top up fees for my Mum and hope the government don’t look at this as being a solution in the future.

 

[Firecatcher]

Sorry you feel that the forum has not been supportive.
I will try to answer all your questions.
If your Dad were to fall ill you would not be expected to sort things out yourself - you would contact Social Services - emergency contact if out of hours - and they will put something into place. The local authority have a legal responsibility to look after your mum not you or your Dad - but sometimes you need to remind them of this. It might not be where you would choose but she would be safe until a permanent solution could be found.
With regards to self funding do your parents own their home? If they do and your mum is the only person left living there then SS would expect the house to be sold to fund further care if she went into fulltime care.
With regards to involving your Dad in putting mum's name on a waiting list - it depends on how the POA is worded - are you joint and several or just joint POA. If it is joint and several you can act on your own.
You can checkout care homes on line and make a list of some you might want to visit when you are at your parents house or you can look closer to you if you would wish her to be closer. If you want to move her close to you you might be better off talking to LA both where you are and where they are as there might have to be transfer of LA funding at some point.
If you put you mums' name on a waiting list you don't have to move her in when she gets to the top of the list if you don't want to at that time - she should stay there waiting for the next vacancy.
Hope this is some help.

Many thanks for replying. Yes the POA document is worded jointly and severally which I didn’t realise until I checked. My parents do own their own home but I’m happy for this to be sold if my Mum was left on her own. I’m not particularly concerned about moving my Mum closer to me as I live on a boat and don’t have a fixed mooring.

 

[thistlejak]

I might have confused you with regards to the house - you won't have to sell the house while one of them lives there - it only comes into play with regards to selling it to pay care home fees when it is empty.

 

[Firecatcher]

I might have confused you with regards to the house - you won't have to sell the house while one of them lives there - it only comes into play with regards to selling it to pay care home fees when it is empty

 

[Firecatcher]

Thank you. I realised the house wouldn’t have to be sold if my Dad was alive and living there. The difficulty is I don’t think they have any joint savings accounts and my Mum totally emptied her savings account a few months after her Alzheimer’s diagnosis and gave the money to a cat charity. I posted about this before and tried to get the money back but to no avail. I’m sure it will be seen as deliberate deprivation of assets when she finally needs care which is one of the reasons I feel so stressed with it all. My Dad has a small amount of savings in his own name which would fund her care for a few months only if he reached a stage where he couldn’t manage.

 

[thistlejak]

I don't think that the LA will consider it deliberate deprivation of assets due to your Mum's diagnosis - and even if they do they would be the ones trying to get the money back not you - so I wouldn't worry about that.
If it reached the stage that your Dad can't cope , which is unfortunately is probable, then only your Mum's income and savings would be looked at - your Dad's savings would not be used to fund her care.
As it looks like you Mum would not be self funding I would try to get a needs assessment done for your Mum, a carer's assessment for your Dad and then a financial assessment done when you know the outcome of the needs assessment from their LA - at that point you can then talk to the finance department of their LA and ask about transfer of funds if you wish to move your Mum nearer to you should the need arise. The LA will try a max of 4 care visits a day before they will pay for a care home in most cases.
You might have to try sell it to your Dad as 'something all old people are entitled to' 'help for him to keep Mum at home' ' something they have paid into all their lives' ' will give him more time to spend with Mum not doing housework etc' Whatever you think will work. Your Mum will probably say she is fine and does everything herself and doesn't need anyone - that is par for the course - so you will need to get your Dad on board. If you can it is better to get them used to carers coming in before it becomes a crisis.
All this will take some time as LA are very slow at getting things done.

 

[canary]

I agree with @thistlejak

Get a needs and carer assessment organised plus a financial assessment. I am not convinced that the LA will consider there to have been deprivation of assets (I remember your thread about this) especially as you tried to get the money back. Both my mum and OH gave away an awful lot of money - it seems to be quite common at the stage when they are losing capacity to deal with their finances.

Even if they did decide that there has been deprivation of assets, you would be in no worse position, so you wont lose anything by getting assessments
xx

 

[Firecatcher]

I agree with @thistlejak

Get a needs and carer assessment organised plus a financial assessment. I am not convinced that the LA will consider there to have been deprivation of assets (I remember your thread about this) especially as you tried to get the money back. Both my mum and OH gave away an awful lot of money - it seems to be quite common at the stage when they are losing capacity to deal with their finances.

Even if they did decide that there has been deprivation of assets, you would be in no worse position, so you wont lose anything by getting assessments
xx

Thank you for replying. It looks as though my Mum will hopefully be getting an assessment from social services soon. The police have picked her up twice this week after she’s been found wandering in the local area half dressed and they’ve made a safeguarding alert.