Visiting after vaccine....

[prittlewell]

Mum is due her vaccine on 28th Jan. All residents and care staff are being vaccinated. I assumed that after the three week period elapses, normal visiting could be resumed. However, the home have now said ’only when the Govt advises it’.

What is the point of the residents having the bloody vaccine if we still cannot visit them.

My understanding is that the Govt has said it is up to care homes, and care homes are saying ‘only when the Govt says it’s ok’....... I am getting really sick of not being able to see Mum.......

 

[jennifer1967]

my husband is at home shielding but when he has the vaccine, he will still have to shield because they have to have 2 and they are worried about the new mutations.

 

[nellbelles]

I’ve had my first vaccine but I understand that the level of protection is not high until after the second dose so I’m still staying at home and if I venture out I’m social distancing and wearing a mask.

 

[prittlewell]

After the first vaccine has been given, you have most of the protection, and if you get the virus, the symptoms will be far less. This is why they have stopped giving the second dose so more can get the first dose.

 

[jennifer1967]

they are hurrying up with the first so more people have some protection rather than a few having a lot of protection. you are not fully protected until the second injection which used to be 3weeks space but now twelve week space

 

[jaymor]

I don’t think we get total protection even after second one. We should be covered enough that should we get it we will not need a hospital bed or ventilator.

 

[Banjomansmate]

Basically you have to consider it will be four months before you have full cover, so no rush to get back to “normal”.

 

[nitram]

All residents and care staff are being vaccinated. I assumed that after the three week period elapses, normal visiting could be resumed.

Current guidance for any clinically extremely vulnerable resident is:

"Even if you have had both doses of the vaccine, you should continue to follow this shielding advice, until further notice as we continue to assess the impact of vaccination among all groups"

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/951311/CEV_Guidance

 

[prittlewell]

Current guidance for any clinically extremely vulnerable resident is:

"Even if you have had both doses of the vaccine, you should continue to follow this shielding advice, until further notice as we continue to assess the impact of vaccination among all groups"

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/951311/CEV_Guidance

So how many years before I can hold my Mum again, or do I have to bring her home and take her out of care to do so.

This is ******* ridiculous...........

 

[prittlewell]

Basically you have to consider it will be four months before you have full cover, so no rush to get back to “normal”.

I am not worried about getting back to normal, I just want to see my Mum before she dies.........

 

[Lynmax]

Unfortunately, even if all residents have been vaccinated, visitors could still pass on the virus to a resident as the scientists are not sure how much the vaccine prevents transmission. They would have some protection from being very ill with Covid after vaccination but for a vulnerable older person, they could still be very poorly.

Hopefully in time, after the second jab and if the infection rate goes down as lockdown continues and more younger people are vaccinated, open visiting will happen again,

 

[Lone Wolf]

I am not worried about getting back to normal, I just want to see my Mum before she dies.........

Ask for an individual risk assessment.

The Government recognises that visiting is crucially important for maintaining the health and wellbeing and quality of life for care home residents and also vital for family to maintain life-long relationships with their loved ones.
[ Government Guidance - Visiting care homes during COVID-19, Updated 12 January 2021
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...icies-for-visiting-arrangements-in-care-homes ]

Statistics show that the average length of stay in a care home is about two years. So time is running out for many care home residents to be able to meaningfully resume seeing family members.

Notwithstanding the current lockdown restrictions, the law as at 6 January 2020 explicitly permits without exception a close family member to visit a person staying in a care home.
[ The Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions) (All Tiers) (England) Regulations 2020.
Exceptions to restrictions on leaving home - Exception 4 at 2(2)(7) of Schedule 3A.
Exceptions in relation to indoor gatherings - Exception 2 at 7(3) of Schedule 3A.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1374/contents ]

The care home visiting permission in the lockdown regulations is supported by the Government Guidance, which states that contact visits in exceptional circumstances such as end of life should always be supported and enabled. The Guidance now defines end of life care as the last year of life, not just towards the very end of life.

People are considered to be approaching the end of life when they are likely to die within the next 12 months, recognising that this is not always possible to predict. This includes people who have an advanced incurable illness such as dementia and are frail and have co-existing conditions that mean they are at risk of dying from a sudden crisis in their condition.
[ https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/end-of-life-care/what-it-involves-and-when-it-starts/ ]

The Government Guidance provides for care homes to undertake individual risk assessments, taking into account the rights, well-being and needs of the individual residents, and that decisions should be taken in light of providers’ legal duties under the Equality Act and Human Rights Act. It also states that visiting decisions should involve the resident and their family.

 

[prittlewell]

Unfortunately, even if all residents have been vaccinated, visitors could still pass on the virus to a resident as the scientists are not sure how much the vaccine prevents transmission. They would have some protection from being very ill with Covid after vaccination but for a vulnerable older person, they could still be very poorly.

Hopefully in time, after the second jab and if the infection rate goes down as lockdown continues and more younger people are vaccinated, open visiting will happen again,

According to this then, it could be years before normal visiting is allowed. Mum is 91, had dementia for 8 years, been in the home for 3 years, and is just going downhill. However, the home say she is not ‘end of life’. I have successfully argued that she be placed under the palliative care team which the home did not want, but they were overruled by the GP who agreed to transfer her.

 

[anxious annie]

I hope that you will be able to have a meaningful visit with your mum @prittlewell It has been such a heartbreaking time for residents in care homes. Just when it looked like we would be allowed to visit, with a long awaited change to the emphasis of the importance to residents from family visits, in Government guidance in early December and the promise of testing for family , then suddenly we are back in Lockdown and only window or screen visits on offer ( some homes not even facilitating these). These obviously not suitable for all residents, so denied again. Once residents have 2 jabs, cases in the community are at an "acceptable" level and restrictions starting to lift , then I believe we must return to indoor visits with contact. Perhaps initially, whilst we wait for a greater percentage of people to be vaccinated, these will be using LFT and PPE, but working swiftly towards visits pre pandemic style. We must do this, or the alternative is for many residents being denied the right to a visit from all family members in the last year(s) of their life. Covid will still be here in a year's time, it isn't going away so it will be a case of balancing the risk of being infected and dying with covid against that of dying through isolation . People will sadly die of covid, just as sadly many elderly currently die of flu or pneumonia, we must learn to live with it.

 

[Kellyr]

Unfortunately, even if all residents have been vaccinated, visitors could still pass on the virus to a resident as the scientists are not sure how much the vaccine prevents transmission. They would have some protection from being very ill with Covid after vaccination but for a vulnerable older person, they could still be very poorly.

Hopefully in time, after the second jab and if the infection rate goes down as lockdown continues and more younger people are vaccinated, open visiting will happen again,

This is undoubtedly the problem with bringing a vaccine out under emergency legislation without long term studies on the effects. No one can say anything about any of it with any clarity. The phase 3 trials that all meds must go through are still being carried out

 

[imthedaughter]

Because it's only been tested to a particular regime, which is two doses spread apart. Then we need a high percentage of the population to have had it to bring it within acceptable levels to resume visiting, unless the government brings in some kind of passport system which I'm not convinced they will do. We are still very far away from normality, and will only know more about how helpful the vaccine is in a general population further down the line. It's frustrating but it's the same for all vaccines, but usually not under such public scrutiny!