Very elderly advanced dementia person on plane journey?

whileaway

Registered User
Dec 11, 2015
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My 96 year old father might have to go to a home, as he has advanced dementia. But his children all live in America. What are the chances he could take the ride over the Atlantic? He is enthused, having always loved flying, and would be in first class, lounging with all his family on board, but he is unable to walk, incontinent, etc. He is very amenable to reason. He will submit to laying in a dirty pad until the carers come, etc.
His head doctor in the hospital team said he could fly, but he was more fit, ie able to stand, then.
 

Bod

Registered User
Aug 30, 2013
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Contact the airlines, find out what their criteria is in this case.

Bod
 

Rosettastone57

Registered User
Oct 27, 2016
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My 96 year old father might have to go to a home, as he has advanced dementia. But his children all live in America. What are the chances he could take the ride over the Atlantic? He is enthused, having always loved flying, and would be in first class, lounging with all his family on board, but he is unable to walk, incontinent, etc. He is very amenable to reason. He will submit to laying in a dirty pad until the carers come, etc.
His head doctor in the hospital team said he could fly, but he was more fit, ie able to stand, then.
Hi I think the biggest problem you will find is with obtaining travel insurance especially when traveling to the USA . Many travel insurance companies will not give a quote for someone who is firstly very elderly and also has mental health problems. My husband and I have been frequent visitors to the USA and our travel insurance company will not cover any form of mental health issue. My nephew who is schizophrenic had difficulty obtaining travel insurance to fly across the Atlantic and he was only 30 years old and able to stand and was continent.
 

cragmaid

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Oct 18, 2010
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North East England
Hello, Would the trip be for a vacation or is the plan for Dad to travel to live with family? Will Dad get a residential visa? Will he be able to afford the very high medical fees if required, as he is highly unlikely to get affordable comprehensive insurance? The airlines will need written evidence of " fitness to fly" and he will probably need two to accompany him.Airplanes do not have toilets large enough for two, so sadly he will have to sit in a wet or soiled pad until after the plane lands. He may become confused during the journey and will also be subject to time changes.

What are the benefits for Dad to make this trip viable. We took my blind but able bodied 82 year old Mother with mixed Dementia to South Africa for a family wedding. On the flight home, she asked " why have we been?" and two weeks later had no memory of the trip.

Sorry to sound negative, but I cannot feel that this trip would be for the best, however well intentioned.
 

lemonjuice

Registered User
Jun 15, 2016
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England
What are the benefits for Dad to make this trip viable. We took my blind but able bodied 82 year old Mother with mixed Dementia to South Africa for a family wedding. On the flight home, she asked " why have we been?" and two weeks later had no memory of the trip.

Sorry to sound negative, but I cannot feel that this trip would be for the best, however well intentioned.
I have similar feelings.

7 years ago we took my mother to her niece's 50th Wedding Anniversary, as I felt it was important as it could turn out to be the last time she saw her European family. As indeed it proved to be.

At that time she was still 'functioning' well,generally continent, able to converse and enjoy things. She spent the entire event asking me who was sitting next to her, her niece's daughter and husband and although she seemed to 'enjoy' the happy atmosphere a few days after on the return journey she had no memory of why we were flying on an aeroplane or of whose anniversary it was.

She 'stressed' every 5 mins on the way to the airport, in the airport and on the plane. In retrospect, I reckon it was because she was out of her usual surroundings. At one point she threatened to walk out of the airport, "Because I'm sick of waiting!'. Having to restrain an elderly person, who is very agitated and liable to become violent in full view of everyone is very difficult.
You have to factor in how much 'routine surroundings' are important to PWD and how suddenly their behaviour can dip when out of them.

Plus as has been mentioned you do need to factor in what might happen should any health complication arise whilst they're over in The States.
 
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Beate

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May 21, 2014
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London
I would likewise be much more concerned about visa requirements and medical insurance and care in the US than the actual flight, I have to say.
 

mancmum

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Feb 6, 2012
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Getting through security at the airport

When we travelled with someone who was completely mobile there were no arrangements for him to be treated as a vulnerable adult at the security point. I have no problem with him being searched etc but he needed to have me accompanying him to explain that he really did have to take his belt off, shoes off etc etc. He got a bit huffy with the security person and thankfully one of his colleagues got a message to him that my dad had dementia.

I had thought that registering with the airline as disabled would have meant some sort of consideration at security but it didn't. You may get somewhat better treatment if there is an obviously visible disability.
 

Chemmy

Registered User
Nov 7, 2011
7,589
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Yorkshire
If you search for

air travel special needs

you will find the airlines have details of procedures on their websites, such as


https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/special-assistance/special-assistance.jsp

which offers special assistance coordinators, for instance.

Realistically, these are the only people who will be able to answer your original question.

Personally, I would have thought sitting in a soiled pad for hours would be as unpleasant for everyone else as it would be your father.
 

pippop1

Registered User
Apr 8, 2013
498
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Might he be better on some kind of cruise ship? Difficult as it takes longer but there is a Dr on board and you could pay for a carer to go with him as well as family members?
 

Grannie G

Volunteer Moderator
Apr 3, 2006
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Kent
My husband and I travelled to India one year after diagnosis. We travelled business class and the airline arranged accompanied support at both airports and inflight support for me. We were fine.

To give one example of the level of his confusion; my husband was Indian and when we arrived in Delhi he asked me why everyone was speaking Hindi.
 

Amy in the US

Registered User
Feb 28, 2015
4,616
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USA
Hi, whileaway, and hope you are able to get the information you need.

To save the OP the bother of re-typing the back story, here's a link to their other thread: https://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/sho...r-my-mum-needs-rest-but-remains-on-24-7-watch

I know it's complicated and hard to know what the best thing to do is.

I do have to say that before you put your dad on a plane and head to the States for either a temporary or permanent stay, you do want to carefully compare the support, funding, and care he is entitled to receive in the UK, versus what will happen in the States.

It's complicated, of course, but in addition to all the usual things to consider, the short answer is that in the States, he will likely be responsible for paying for most of, if not all, his medical care--depending on if he is eligible for Medicare in the States, and I don't know how that works with someone coming from another country, and imagine it depends, and is complicated.

Even with US Medicare coverage, that will only pay for some things. He will also need a secondary insurance company, to pay for some of what Medicare doesn't. You will need to find a company and contract with them directly. I suggest you have a look on the AARP website and see if they have recommendations, or talk to your (US) local Senior Council/Area Agency on Aging/Senior Services office (this may be at the county, city, or state level, depending on where you live.)

You should also know that outside of some very limited types of nursing care, Medicare is not going to pay for carers to come to the house, or for an assisted living/dementia care facility. Again, it's too complicated to get into here, but generally, they won't pay. (Hospital stays are another matter, as are some types of rehab facilities after a hospital stay. Those tend to be covered by Medicare, at least in part and for some duration of time.) It is possible that private secondary insurance would pay for some of those services, although that's not the case for my mother, nor for anyone else I know with a PWD (person with dementia).

Also, if he receives any sort of pension in the UK, I don't know how that would be affected by a move to the States. Certainly any type of Carers or Assistance Allowance would no longer be paid if your parents aren't in the UK, and I would think that the council tax reduction would also stop, but I leave that to the UK experts to advise you on, or you might call Age UK or the UK Alzheimer's Society and talk to them.

The US Alzheimer's Society might be worth a phone call, to see if they can offer any guidance in moving a PWD from another country to the States. Their helpline is 24/7, although you may need an expert during business hours. 1-800-272-3900.

Don't forget that you will need to find your father new doctors in the States. At a minimum I would think that would be a GP/primary care doctor, and a neurologist. Some of the neurologists who specialise in dementia, or the practices that do, have long waiting lists (at least in my area). That's something that your local chapter of the Alzheimer's Association (Google or call the national office) might be able to help you locate.

He will need enough of any of his prescriptions to last until you can establish care with a new doctor. I hope you'll have an appointment set up for right after he gets to the States, so there won't be any lapse in care, although you'll have to arrange insurance first, or be willing to pay all bills out of pocket, which can be expensive (especially, God forbid, if he should need a hospital stay, ambulance transport, or paramedic call).

You will need to get his medical records from the UK, which you will want to do in the UK, and make sure you have physical and/or digital copies of all MRIs, CT scans, et cetera.

Then there are all the usual concerns with sorting through belongings, packing, and having items shipped. That in itself, is a big job!

If there is property, I imagine that would need to be dealt with as well. Will someone need to return to the UK to deal with any clearing out, or sales, that don't happen before this move?

Of course there is the consideration of citizenship, passports and travel documents being in order, any necessary visas applied for and received, and whatever else is needed for Immigration upon reaching the States.

I have no idea of the tax implications of such a move, but would advise you to consult your lawyer/attorney, financial planner, and/or accountant about that.

I have no idea how you transfer bank accounts; again, maybe your legal/financial professionals can help with that, as well as some general financial advice about how your dad will access his money and so forth.

I would also take into consideration your parents' finances as a whole. That is, if they have joint property, savings, and/or other assets in the UK, how will that translate to the US? What will the financial impact be, for both of them, of such a move and possibly transferring their assets?

Your dad will also need a durable Power of Attorney that is valid in the US, as well as whatever the applicable state's version of a health care PoA/living will is. The medical versions will need to be registered with the doctors he sees in the States, and the general PoA will be wanted by any banks, creditors, and other companies with which you do business on his behalf.

I would arrange a meeting with a reputable elder law attorney in the States, ASAP upon arrival. You may be able to get recommendations from your local Bar Association, or the local Senior Services agency in your area.

I think there may be some other threads here on TP about flying or traveling with a PWD, and it might be worth having a look.

Regarding the potential journey itself, while I have never done this, I imagine it's a bit more complicated than just booking some first class airline tickets and setting off for the airport.

I don't know what the airlines may require, but I would definitely talk to your dad's doctor and make sure he is currently okay to fly. If not, and even if he is, I might consider transport by water rather than air.

Then there is the matter of travel insurance, and making sure he has medical insurance coverage before, during, and after the journey.

If you do fly, you will need at least one person with him, and two might be preferable, as he likely should not be left unattended at any point in the journey. The unfamiliar surrounding and bustle of the airport are likely to be confusing and disorienting, if not frightening, to him.

I would book assistance through the airlines for all parts of the journey. Will it just be one flight, or will there be a connection? Have a plan in case the connection is missed or cancelled. (I would not want to be stranded in an airport for hours with a PWD.)

Have a plan for dealing with toileting, changing pullups and clothes, and so forth. Those airplane bathrooms are tiny. You cannot leave him in his own urine or feces/wet or soiled pullups for any length of time; not only will that be offensive to people around him, but it is very bad for his skin. You don't want to deal with skin breakdown or pressure sores; trust me.

Make sure he doesn't get dehydrated on the flight as that will only add to confusion. Make arrangements to bring any needed medications, and food if you think he won't eat what is supplied on the flight, or if that won't be sufficient.

And then there are the issues of where he will live, when he gets to the States. Will he go into residential care, or live with you, or be in a house somewhere? Will the layout of the dwelling be suitable and safe? Is a wet room, hoist, hospital bed, special mattress, or other equipment needed, and will those be ready when he arrives? What about doctors and medical care, as noted above? A dentist, eye doctor, specialists?

I don't think for a minute that this is comprehensive, as I am sure there are a hundred things I've not considered.

I don't mean to say that this is impossible, just that it needs careful thought, consideration, planning, and time to accomplish safely, plus a lot of family conferences and conversations.

To be frank, it doesn't matter if your father is "enthused" about the idea or not. Something that I find difficult about dementia, is that it is not about what your father (or my mother, or any of our family/friends/carees) wants, or says he wants, but rather about what he needs, and keeping him safe and his needs met. It's a really cruel part of dealing with this horrible disease.

I wish you and your family the best of luck, and hope you are able to find a way to meet your parents' needs. Very best wishes to you.
 

Rosettastone57

Registered User
Oct 27, 2016
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I have ready posted on here about the travel insurance issue . But as others have said it is unclear from the post whether the person with dementia is an American citizen or not. If he is traveling as a British citizen on a Visa waiver scheme then to apply for an esta you have to declare whether you have any mental disorder I would say on the basis of answering that question as a yes, you will find that you will have to have an interview at the American embassy for a suitable Visa and an appropriate assessment of whether the person with dementia is suitable to be admitted to the USA.
Quite frankly and I'm going to be blunt this would seem to be a complete non-starter
 

Amy in the US

Registered User
Feb 28, 2015
4,616
0
USA
Some possible resources:

Medicare dot gov is the official web site for Medicare in the US. Here is a link to their website, to determine if one is eligible for Medicare coverage:

https://www.medicare.gov/eligibilitypremiumcalc/


Here is a link to the US Alzheimer's Association: http://www.alz.org

The national office can put you in touch with your local Alzheimer's association office. The local office will have information about workshops, support groups, resources, and services in your area. They likely have a website, and you can probably find it if you Google "Alzheimer's Association city state" or "Alzheimers Association county state" for your area.


I'm afraid I can't provide a link to your local (US based) Senior Council/Area Agency on Aging/Senior Services entity, as I don't know where that would be. However, if you Google "senior services city state" or "senior services township state" or "senior services county state" then you should get the correct results.

Some areas, especially in and around large cities or major metropolitan areas, might be covered by more than one agency. They may be at the state, region, county, city, and/or township level. In a very small state, it may be only the state level.
 

Jessbow

Registered User
Mar 1, 2013
5,720
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Midlands
Best case, it would kill him
Worst case, finish for them both

How on earth you think this is a good idea is beyond my comprehension.
Lets scoop up and elderly couple,both 90+ with a home to pack up and ship, and think everything is going to be okay on the other side of the atlantic, when most of us worry about moving our PWD a mile down the road.

he cant even weight bear, ever mind his incontinence, nor consume other than pureed food. How you think he would fair on a long haul flight?

These ideas are turning into quite serious safeguarding issues
 

Beate

Registered User
May 21, 2014
12,179
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London
In another thread, which I think we need to be aware of to better understand the situation, (https://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/sho...r-my-mum-needs-rest-but-remains-on-24-7-watch) the OP says his parents haven't lived in the US for 60 years, so with all the family resident in the US or Canada, I think it's fair to assume they might be American citizens.

My real worry is the scale of the task of supplanting two very elderly people, one of them with dementia, to another continent where everything, including the health system, is very much different to what they were used to. Can you pack up their belongings and sever all ties to the UK (possible tenancy, bank accounts etc) in a month? How much will the long-distance flight and getting through immigration impact your father? Where will they live? Who is going to look after them or are you looking at nursing homes? Will you be able to get adequate insurance in place (especially now that Trump is trying to repeal Obamacare), and what will be available in your area in terms of support? I have no doubt that the actual medical care will be good (no idea about the social care), but what of it can he get for what price? You say respite here is expensive but I can't imagine any of that being cheaper over there. Will his wife still be expected to look after him? To be honest, I don't think anyone should have to look after someone else at 91. I am half that age and I am exhausted! How much support will be forthcoming from the rest of the family, seeing as you don't talk of any current involvement by them and had to overstay your visa as seemingly no one else was available?

It really all needs considering in depth before you make any far-reaching decisions.
 

Lawson58

Registered User
Aug 1, 2014
4,389
0
Victoria, Australia
Best case, it would kill him
Worst case, finish for them both

How on earth you think this is a good idea is beyond my comprehension.
Lets scoop up and elderly couple,both 90+ with a home to pack up and ship, and think everything is going to be okay on the other side of the atlantic, when most of us worry about moving our PWD a mile down the road.

he cant even weight bear, ever mind his incontinence, nor consume other than pureed food. How you think he would fair on a long haul flight?

These ideas are turning into quite serious safeguarding issues

This thread needs to be considered in the context of the other thread quoted by Beate.

And I still say Hmmmmmmmmmm!
 

Beate

Registered User
May 21, 2014
12,179
0
London
Yes, that's why I quoted the other thread as it gives more background to the situation. And yes, it would be a better idea if a poster kept all the info together in one thread, but we can't force them.
 

Bod

Registered User
Aug 30, 2013
1,971
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Having read this thread https://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/show...-on-24-7-watch I too am concerned regarding safe guarding of both parents.
Neither are in any fit state to travel, that distance.
Unless the American side of the family is very wealthy, and prepared to spend money without counting the cost, then they are better off, staying here.
In a system that is known to them, and one that despite some failings, does provide a working solution.
Should the family be concerned, regarding the finances in the UK, then a better solution would be to transfer funds from the US.


Bod
 

jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
39,442
0
Does it?

I suspect people have better things to do than try and link multiple posts?

A lesson here to posters to not assume people have read previous postings and to include a brief back story and drop the cryptic responses?

Just a thought!

Good luck Lawson58 and your PWDs with whatever you do.

I just want to point out that Lawson58 is not the poster contemplating this.