Vascular Dementia

[snuffyuk]

Hello again
My mum was sort of OK 18months ago. She had many physical probs plus being an insulin dependant diabetic for over 40 years.
My sister visited for a couple of days and she slept in the room next to mum so that I could get a decent sleep. In the early hours my sister woke me to say mum had fallen out of bed.When I got to my mums room she was lying face down with arms back along the body. I immediatley turned her over and the rest of what happened is history.
I guess that mum had been face down in the carpet for approx 5 mins+. It was from that day onward that I noticed the confusion in her. The doctor said the confusion was due to TIAs which is fair enough but it is a "chicken and egg" problem. Did mum fall out of bed due to a TIA or having fallen out of bed abd being face down for that time the TIAs started then leading to Dementia?

I know this a complicated question and I would never ever say to my sister that she should have turned mum over before getting me.
Your thoughts on this would be appreciated.
Regards
Snuffy

 

[Brucie]

You have to face the fact that you will never know 100%.

On balance of probability I would say that your Mum sensed the TIA coming on [Jan always would] and tried to get out of bed as a natural action. The attack then probably came on and she then fell. From a viewpoint of total ignorance [I have a PhD in that] I would say that the arms show that.

Had she fallen normally, she would have moved her arms to protect herself from the fall. They would not have been back along her body.

In a TIA she would have simply collapsed without trying to do anything and her arms were probably hanging down at the time, so that's where they stayed.

In any case, it is difficult to fall face down and completely block all airways.

Whatever actually happened, it is past, and you can gain nothing from continually wondering. Do what we have to so much with this disease, and believe the best of the options.

And in all circumstances please don't burden your sister with something she would agonise about for the rest of her life.

Regards

 

[snuffyuk]

thanks for your reply.I said in my original posting--


"I would never ever say to my sister that she should have turned mum over before getting me."

I will live with that on my own.
Regards

 

[Brucie]

Hi Snuffy

I don't believe there's anything that you have to live with on your own, in terms of there having been anything you or your sister could have done better.

TIAs were the first signs I had of Jan's oncoming dementia. They happen and we can't stop them.

 

[Heather A]

TIA

Can you tell me what a TIA is? My husband has vascular dementia but I was not aware of a TIA.

Heather A

 

[Brucie]

TIA = Transient Ischaemic Attack, aka a mini-stroke.

I'm not a medic, but that's my understanding.

In my wife's case, they were more like fainting attacks, only clearly more serious.

 

[snuffyuk]

Hello again
My mum had never experienced TIAs before the fall.
Regards
snuffy

 

[Heather A]

TIA

Thanks for that Bruce. I am only aware of one occasion that may have been a TIA. My husband went out for a drink at his local. He had only been there a few minutes when he felt unwell/strange and went outside. He passed out and lay in the mud for I dont know how long though I dont think it was very long. He came round and came home. He was violently sick when he got back. Went to GP next morning who took his blood pressure and said it was fine nothing to worry about! So we didnt give it another thought although I have often wondered when he had had these mini strokes that the MRI scan showed had occurred because I was never aware of a stroke occurring .
heather A

 

[Brucie]

Hi Snuffy and Heather,

I can only speak about my own experiences with Jan.

Jan had been experiencing what we thought of as faints for a while before she thought to tell me. I think she believed that this was all they were - faints - and that it might be due to her not eating at the right time or something. However, she started falling and bruising herself, and that is when she told me.

We told the doctors and they could detect nothing wrong.

A Harley Street consultant told her it was hormonal and made worse because her blood sugar was sensitive to needing regular inputs of food. So, they put her on progesterone for the hormones [Jan had problems with blood clotting so couldn't use oestrogen], and was recommended to carry biscuits around with her and eat a couple every two hours or so.

Neither 'treatment' made an iota of difference.

All TIAs start with a first one, Snuffy, and it may simply be that the one you describe was that. It may be that she had some smaller, untetectable ones previously - Jan's mostly happened when she was in bed. One night she had seven! At that stage we believed them to be faints still.

 

[thompsonsom]

Can you please tell me what TIA'S are

 

[Norman]

My wife was years into AD when she had a TIA.
She was checked out at hospital,they did not know much about AD,she was put on 0.75 aspirin daily thankfully it hasn't happened again
Norman

 

[Kriss]

We believe that Aunty has had TIA's - on one occasion when I arrived to visit I found her very disorientated, undressed, and agitated and called the Doctor - by the time she arrived (3 hours later) Aunt had slept heavily slumped in her chair - totally grey - and was just coming round. The next day she was fine!

Whether she had suffered these previously and no-one had been around to witness them we'll never know - this was the real start of the physical problems, there had been little for us to see prior to this. On another occasion a neighbour rang to say she was unwell and once again when we arrived (it takes over an hour on a good run) she was a little muddled but had severe difficulty with her vision. On a third occasion after a similar call from a neighbour she started to show problems holding her head up - having to support her forehead with her hand.

Its interesting Bruce that you mention the food link as at first we thought maybe her blood sugar may have been low due to not eating properly. Certainly since she has been in her residential home being looked after we are not aware of any further attacks. She has also been on Aspirin since they were noted.

 

[snuffyuk]

If the TIA was the cause for my mum to fall out of bed then it must have been quite major. She now (unknown to her) has regular TIA's which show up as a bad day, loss of words etc.
As my mum has always been an "unstable" diabetic this may have caused her fall?
Regards
snuffy

 

[Bugsy]

mystery revealed

On reading through your posts on TIAs of which I previously knew nothing, I can remember when Dad had a strange faint and was violently sick for hours before he was taken into hospital to be told nothing was wrong and he could be suffering from a form of Diabetes!
The first one must have been some 3.5 years ago and the most recent around 1.5 years ago. I'd thought it was because he was experiencing 'worry' attacks after firstly having a bad experience with a double glazing salesman, then his bank investing his money into stocks and shares when he was 78, and then his car stolen because he had left his keys in the car! All early indications of his dementia maybe?
It helps me to talk to Mum about these things and for giving her reasons why he is no longer her Alf.

Thank you