Urgent CHC Advice required in advance of meeting tomorrow

Discussion in 'I care for a person with dementia' started by Chopper, Jan 7, 2016.

  1. Chopper

    Chopper Registered User

    Jan 7, 2016
    10
    Hi all,

    This is a first post on this site so please be gentle with me! My dad has dementia and just under 6 weeks ago suffered a fall at home, fracturing his left hip (he had only been out of hospital approximately 10 days having spent 3 weeks in the same hospital following a fall where he fractured his ribs).
    Since my dad has been in hospital his dementia has significantly worsened, he is agressive, distressed, wants to go home and is generally very unpredictable amongst other things. Due to his dementia, rehab on his hib is slow to non existant, he cannot walk. Moves were put in place to place my dad in rehab and a bed was requested 9th December, i chased this up and following a conversation with the hospital social worker she suddenly decided that a CHC checklist should be done in view of my concerns around his mobility/agression. This was carried out - dont know when as the hospital has not informed us, I rang and was told it had been done and that dad had passed the criteria for the 2nd stage, Ive been continually chasing to be told that the extended assesment was done on Tuesday 5th - no contact from DLN who carried it out, daily chases from me until i got hold of him today, he has invited us in for a meeting tomorrow to provide our contibution to the assement and decide what care we want for my dad as they will need costings to place before the panel
    From all my research i am not sure that this process has been followed correctlly, i have queried as my dad lacks mental capacity (not formally confirmed but sw and ward manager have cofnirmed to me separatly)-
    Can someone confirm if this is normal practise? if it is what points do i need to cover when i go to the meeting with my mom tomorrow?
    If its not, how do i challenge this? We dont have POA (grrr) and I am wanting to apply for Deputyship but am I right in thinking i cant do that until its confirmed he lacks capacity. I sensed that the DLN was looking to use the lack of POA against us

    Many Many Thanks (sorry its so long!)
     
  2. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    18,296
    Male
    North Manchester
    The whole process is complicated and not always understood by the professionals involved.

    I suggest you read through this thread
    http://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/show...pport-thread&p=1168356&viewfull=1#post1168356

    If you haven't got time to study it all some of the links it contains are:-

    http://www.beaconchc.co.uk/
    You can get up to 90 minutes free advice on the phone from this one


    http://www.sfe.legal/assets/media/NHS_CONTINUING_HEALTHCARE_BOOK_MARCH_2014.pdf


    http://caretobedifferent.co.uk/care-act-2014-helps-you-with-nhs-continuing-healthcare/
    This site is a commercial one and offers to sell a book but at least one member has had free advice from the founder.
    http://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/show...pport-thread&p=1211794&viewfull=1#post1211794

    Good luck and don't be bullied into anything.
     
  3. Chopper

    Chopper Registered User

    Jan 7, 2016
    10
    Thanks for the response, I will have a look at those links

    It's all very new to our family, they seem to be taking advantage of people when they are their most vulnerable, just glad my mom is not dealing with this on her own
     
  4. AlsoConfused

    AlsoConfused Registered User

    Sep 17, 2010
    1,958
    Please let us know how it goes. If the result isn't what you want then it seems to me you've already got quite a few grounds for appeal - they haven't got the process right.

    I'm amazed at the speed at which this has been done. My Mum's Checklist was completed early November and we STILL haven't heard any more (contrary to statutory deadlines).
     
  5. tigerlady

    tigerlady Registered User

    Nov 29, 2015
    427
    When my husband was assessed for NHS CHC it was a proper meeting and I was informed and attended. At the time he had been hospital in a elderly mental health assessment unit after being sectioned, and I couldn't find a home that would take him, as the notes of the hospital staff contained all the episodes of his aggression. I think the checklist had already been done, so that the next stage was the DST - Decision Support Tool. The results of that meeting then had to go to a panel, although I was told straight after the meeting that he would probably get it as he had scored "severe" in the domains "cognition" and "behaviour"

    The meeting was quite stressful for me because I had to hear all the upsetting facts about my husbands aggressive behaviour, and about his severe cognitive impairment - although I knew he was bad, I didnt realise how bad, and to hear it out loud was awful.

    The Age UK fact sheet below will tell you all you need to know

    http://www.ageuk.org.uk/Documents/E...and_NHS-funded_nursing_care_fcs.pdf?dtrk=true
     
  6. Chopper

    Chopper Registered User

    Jan 7, 2016
    10
    Thank you Confused and Tiger lady, I think the reason for the speed of the assessment is they don't have the time/skills to deal with my dad. He has bitten my mom on a couple of occasions, kicked her and 'gone for me, my husband, mom and brother on various occasions whilst he has been there. They are very inpatient with him and were not happy when the sw asked for the chc process to be undertaken, I was told this was a delaying tactic so the sw didn't have to do anything so I had already anticipated this would be a challenge!

    What I am confused about is the expectation that we will decide where he should go as we don't know what would be the most suitable place for him, without them saying the extent of his needs. My mom wants him to go to a particular place near our home but she has repeatedly been told its not suitable for his level of need, it is a very frustrating process!
     
  7. copsham

    copsham Registered User

    Oct 11, 2012
    593
    Oxfordshire
    A quick suggestion if you have not already set off for your meeting....

    Why not ask what the options are, who makes the decisions and as this is all new to you can you have a few days to think about it. Ask a question like What is the legal position so that they know you are not going to take just anything thrown at you.

    Good luck and let us know how it goes.
     
  8. copsham

    copsham Registered User

    Oct 11, 2012
    593
    Oxfordshire
    A quick suggestion if you have not already set off for your meeting....

    Why not ask what the options are, who makes the decisions and as this is all new to you can you have a few days to think about it. Ask a question like "What is the legal position " so that they know you are not going to take just anything thrown at you.

    Good luck and let us know how it goes.
     
  9. stanleypj

    stanleypj Registered User

    Dec 8, 2011
    10,561
    North West
    It's all very confusing and the one thing that seems clear is that they have not carried out the process correctly. The first thing to establish is where they think they are up to in the process. From what you have said it is not clear to me that a decision not to award CHC has been made so there's all to play for. I would make it clear that they have not carried out the process correctly and that you require a written statement detailing what has happened so far.
     
  10. rageineden

    rageineden Registered User

    Dec 14, 2015
    20
    As i know from my own situation it seems common place for the procedure to be ignored completely by everyone involved. You will have grounds to appeal as i do, but you just have to think of it as a long fight designed to wear you out and put you off.

    My relatives MDT meeting was 22/12 and although told by phone after the meeting we did not quality nothing has been confirmed in writing yet. I have chased and chased but the bureaucrats just don't care.

    Today we had it confirmed that after one hell of a fight the local authority will pay one months night time care at home rather than in a care home. This is to see if we can get our relative back to some form of independence. The night time care was all we wanted in the first place.

    They have kicked and screamed all the way saying it is not normal practice etc. But we never gave up and continued to bombard anyone and everyone with daily emails and phone calls plus formal complaints until we got what we wanted.

    We still have the appeals process to go through which we will do in the same manner.

    Hope the meeting went well for you.
     
  11. AlsoConfused

    AlsoConfused Registered User

    Sep 17, 2010
    1,958
    Congrats for winning so far!
     
  12. tigerlady

    tigerlady Registered User

    Nov 29, 2015
    427
    In my husbands case, when he was granted CHC, the hospital wanted him out asap, and I was given a list of suitable nursing homes with vacancies acceptable to the NHS for CHC funding. Previous to that, I had just been looking for care homes, as he didn't need nursing as he is physically fit, but the CHC people said it had to be a nursing home as the staffing level was higher to be able to monitor and deal with him. As he was in hospital at the time, the discharge official was dealing with me then and not the social worker. I am sure you will get a shortlist of suitable homes to visit and choose what you think will be the most acceptable
     
  13. Chopper

    Chopper Registered User

    Jan 7, 2016
    10
    Well, the good news is my dad has met the criteria for chc funding and his paperwork is going to panel for approval he got a high for behaviours and severe for cognition and also a severe for mobility, the most upsetting part was finding out that they think its very unlikely he will be mobile again due and has made very little progress with his rehab due the extent of his cognitive problems, he has been verbally and physically aggressive to the hospital staff which we were not fully aware of and it's just so horrible as its not my dad. They have said that he needs an EMI bed so providing funding is agreed we are going to have to start looking at appropriate homes,

    They have said their is no reason why we can't get pOA if he agrees to it, which he did today so that is positive although we found out he is being given anti psychotic drug to calm him and he is also been put under Dols safeguard, today has been very bitter sweet
     
  14. stanleypj

    stanleypj Registered User

    Dec 8, 2011
    10,561
    North West
    Getting CHC is always likely to be bittersweet.

    But it's better than not getting it.
     
  15. mumsgothelp

    mumsgothelp Registered User

    Jan 8, 2016
    11
    POOLE DORSET
    We have a local advocacy team in Poole Dorset , I was given their contact information through the Alzheimer's society. Their advise/ help is free . I am going through similar assessment and also am unsure about correct procedures to get the best outcome. Maybe you might find similar in your area, J
     
  16. tigerlady

    tigerlady Registered User

    Nov 29, 2015
    427

    You are right - its so bittersweet - I was actually crying after the DST meeting after hearing about my lovely husbands aggression towards the staff. The CHC takes away the worry of funding the care, but the heartache of knowing how this horrible disease has taken him away is almost too much to bear at times.

    Sending you big hugs xx
     
  17. Chopper

    Chopper Registered User

    Jan 7, 2016
    10
    Thank you Tiger lady, it's just like bits of my dad are going one by one, at least he still has his sense of humour x
     
  18. Boo7878

    Boo7878 Registered User

    Oct 19, 2015
    10
    Boo7878


    Hi,
    We have had this with our Step Father, he did not qualify for CHC funding ? His care home he was in for 3 years gave him notice. None of the care home's would accept him after reading his care plan @ the home he was in.
    The CHC nurse who took his assessment to panel rang me the same day with the outcome! He broke his hip after a fall @ his care home, He spent a while in hospital, he fell again & spent another spell in hospital. We have an LPOA but I would not think this would make a difference to your Dads assessment. It has to be done before he lacks capacity to be his LPOA. The home wanted him out as they said they could no longer meet his needs? as he was to aggressive. He was sectioned under Section 2 of the Mental Health Act for 4 weeks. He was then sectioned under Section 3 which gives him Section 17 which means they no longer have to contribute to any cost at all . He did fully fund his care for the first 2 years, the last year he partly funded it. I hope this is of some help to you ? Don't be put off by him not getting CHC funding ... Appeal I would.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.