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Urgent advice please

Rosserk

Registered User
Jul 9, 2019
398
Hi all

I care for my mum at home and have struggled from day one. She is is extremely difficult. She was recently in hospital and I fought to have her home after being told she wasn’t displaying any of the difficult symptoms after a medication change. I discovered that wasn’t true as soon as she came home! She’s now worse than ever and I’m at breaking point.
I have reached the conclusion that she needs to go into a care home or I will definitely have a breakdown. It’s just too difficult day and night with no help. I asked the LA about respite while I look for a care home but they’re insisting on a financial assessment before she’s been assessed for CHC I’ve refused and they’ve just emailed asking if I have POA for finance. Can they do that? I’ve told them if I have to pay I will source my own care home for respite. Any advice would be appreciated I feel like I’m losing control.
 

Woo2

Registered User
Apr 30, 2019
1,674
South East
I don’t have experience in this area but I thought they had to assess for needs first before financial . I would pay and get her in to respite while you take a breath and consider your next move but I could be completely wrong . Hopefully you will get better advice soon . Have you rang the helpline ? X
 

Izzy

Volunteer Moderator
Aug 31, 2003
61,808
69
Dundee
Hi and welcome to the forum @Rosserk.

I'm afraid I'm another who has no experience in this but I agree that the helpline would be a good step for you. The details are as follows -


Phone number - 0300 222 11 22.
 

Rosserk

Registered User
Jul 9, 2019
398
I don’t have experience in this area but I thought they had to assess for needs first before financial . I would pay and get her in to respite while you take a breath and consider your next move but I could be completely wrong . Hopefully you will get better advice soon . Have you rang the helpline ? X
Neither my mum or I have had any type of assessment. I did ask and a SW came but didn’t do any assessment of needs. She asked mum if she wanted respite mum said no! She asked if she’d like to go to day centre mum said no ! She left!
 

Woo2

Registered User
Apr 30, 2019
1,674
South East
Get them back for an assesment of needs . I would be telling them she is in need of 24hr professional care and you are at breakdown point, they have a duty of care to her and to you . They can not take her word for it she is fine , would you be better getting a private sw ?
 

Jessbow

Registered User
Mar 1, 2013
3,015
West Hertfordshire
You shouldnt need a financial assesment just because you are applying for CHC. Are yiu sure that is what you are applying for?

when someone thinks about going into care, a financial assesment is usually the start- it establishes just who will be paying.


there are 3 ways to pay for a nursing home
CHC
Fully self funding
SS funded.

You wont get SS funded without the assesment
CHC is very difficult to get and have to fit a very strict criteria
 

Rosserk

Registered User
Jul 9, 2019
398
You shouldnt need a financial assesment just because you are applying for CHC. Are yiu sure that is what you are applying for?

when someone thinks about going into care, a financial assesment is usually the start- it establishes just who will be paying.


there are 3 ways to pay for a nursing home
CHC
Fully self funding
SS funded.

You wont get SS funded without the assesment
CHC is very difficult to get and have to fit a very strict criteria
Hi I asked for a CHC assessment I strongly believe my mother will qualify she has severe sundowners and some very challenging behaviours. I am not prepared to pay for care until that assessment has happened as I believe she’s entitled. Everything I’ve read says the LA can’t assess finances until after that assessment has deemed her not eligible?
 

Rosserk

Registered User
Jul 9, 2019
398
Get them back for an assesment of needs . I would be telling them she is in need of 24hr professional care and you are at breakdown point, they have a duty of care to her and to you . They can not take her word for it she is fine , would you be better getting a private sw ?
I asked about day care and they said your mums refused it so we can’t offer it. I said she doesn’t have capacity to refuse what’s in her best interest but they said there’s nothing they can do if she won’t agree!
 

Jessbow

Registered User
Mar 1, 2013
3,015
West Hertfordshire
Hi I asked for a CHC assessment I strongly believe my mother will qualify she has severe sundowners and some very challenging behaviours. I am not prepared to pay for care until that assessment has happened as I believe she’s entitled. Everything I’ve read says the LA can’t assess finances until after that assessment has deemed her not eligible?
I am not sure either of those qualifies for CHC, there maybe a case for sectioning, but from what you say that doesnt sem to be a possibility either.

What happens if she doesnt qualify? Ideally , Are you hoping for a CHC funded nursing home, or something else?


in what way does she need
qualified nursing care??
 

Rosserk

Registered User
Jul 9, 2019
398
Then they have to assess her capacity surely ?
lol you would think so! My mother can’t string a coherent sentence together and doesn’t know who she is where she. She thinks she’s a little girl I’ve kidnapped and won’t take back to her mother! She’s had dozens of capacity tests and failed everyone !
 

Louise7

Registered User
Mar 25, 2016
2,042
Just to add with regards to a CHC assessment, I've been through the process twice and it takes weeks. Firstly a checklist will need to be completed - there may be a wait for an assessor to become available to do this. If your Mum's needs are deemed to require a full DST assessment with a multi-disciplinary team this should take place within 28 days of the checklist completion but could take longer. If at that stage your Mum is not considered eligible for full CHC she may qualify for Funded Nursing Care but this is only £159 or so - not much towards the cost of a nursing home. If you disagree with the CHC funding decision you have to submit a written request for review/appeal. This will take several months to be dealt with.

Obviously worth applying for CHC if you think she may qualify but the process is very slow and if you are close to breaking point now you need to concentrate on getting respite now, not in several weeks/ months time.
 

Ruth1974

Registered User
Dec 26, 2018
78
Hi all

I care for my mum at home and have struggled from day one. She is is extremely difficult. She was recently in hospital and I fought to have her home after being told she wasn’t displaying any of the difficult symptoms after a medication change. I discovered that wasn’t true as soon as she came home! She’s now worse than ever and I’m at breaking point.
I have reached the conclusion that she needs to go into a care home or I will definitely have a breakdown. It’s just too difficult day and night with no help. I asked the LA about respite while I look for a care home but they’re insisting on a financial assessment before she’s been assessed for CHC I’ve refused and they’ve just emailed asking if I have POA for finance. Can they do that? I’ve told them if I have to pay I will source my own care home for respite. Any advice would be appreciated I feel like I’m losing control.
You dont have to pay, she pays. They can only financially assess her, not you. Its horrible, i know, im going through it. Talk to your local alzheimers group about where to go for advice (there are brokerage services or an independent financial advisor). If you are living in her house they may be unable to sell it to cover fees. If its your house they cant touch it. She is allowed quite a lot in savings before they will make her pay.
 

Ruth1974

Registered User
Dec 26, 2018
78
I asked about day care and they said your mums refused it so we can’t offer it. I said she doesn’t have capacity to refuse what’s in her best interest but they said there’s nothing they can do if she won’t agree!
They play games with capacity. When i challenged the content of my husbands assessment i was told it represented his views and as he has capacity they have to respect his views. I then pointed out that at no point had they ever given him the opportunity to read and sign his assessment (odd, if he has capacity). Anyway, the psychiatrist has now confirmed that he has capacity so i will play them at their own game. Im taking him to his solicitor to get his POA enacted while he still has capacity!
 

Splashing About

Registered User
Oct 20, 2019
426
The approach to needs assessment is “how can we avoid this” and refusal of PWD is often used along with general evasiveness.

Our CHC assessment went something like this...she ticked every box to some degree (challenging behaviour, doubly incontinent, medical conditions, cannot manage own meds, fluid or food intake or personal care, poor sleep, falls risk, unsafe to be left for 5 minutes) but the assessor said she wouldn’t qualify until she was end of life.

It makes a dreadful situation so much worse. A campaign to ensure you’re isolated and unsupported
 

Splashing About

Registered User
Oct 20, 2019
426
They play games with capacity. When i challenged the content of my husbands assessment i was told it represented his views and as he has capacity they have to respect his views. I then pointed out that at no point had they ever given him the opportunity to read and sign his assessment (odd, if he has capacity). Anyway, the psychiatrist has now confirmed that he has capacity so i will play them at their own game. Im taking him to his solicitor to get his POA enacted while he still has capacity!
Go you! Good move
 

Rosserk

Registered User
Jul 9, 2019
398
I am not sure either of those qualifies for CHC, there maybe a case for sectioning, but from what you say that doesnt sem to be a possibility either.

What happens if she doesnt qualify? Ideally , Are you hoping for a CHC funded nursing home, or something else?


in what way does she need
qualified nursing care??
She takes PRN medication. She is restricted fluids because her sodium levels drop dangerously low if fluid intake is not monitored. Her behaviour is extreme and deemed a risk to herself and others. Her short term memory is none existent. According to her psychiatrist she scores severe on checklist for Behaviour, cognition, Psychological/ emotional, communication and drug therapy according to their own definitions. I understand not all domains score severe/ priority and I realise CHC is extremely difficult to qualify for but they do have to follow their own legal guidelines. If she’s not eligible and they can justify their decision according to the decision matrix then so be it but having scored severe on the checklist in two priority domains I have to go forward to the full assessment.
 

Jessbow

Registered User
Mar 1, 2013
3,015
West Hertfordshire
Go for it, but dont hold your breath ,

My (now late)mother was a registered blind, insulin dependant, double incontinent widow that was aggressive and wandered.
She couldnt be left at all.She had no short term memory

Not could she administer her own insulin not recognise the symptoms of a Hypo. in addition the that she couldnt cook, or even make a cup of tea

She was declined- none of it was deemed to warrent a qualified nurse, caarers were enough and shold get on and pay for them


She eventually got it when she was diagnosed with an inoperable heart condition, following CPR ( Against my wishes but....)
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
12,206
South coast
If you are going forward to the full assessment then you will almost certainly get the Funded Nursing Care portion at least.