1. memphisminstrel

    memphisminstrel Registered User

    Aug 18, 2011
    27
    Can anyone advise me on hospital protocol. Mum has had a fall and broken her collar bone in 3 places (partly shattered) has dementia and is 74. The hospital have refused to operate because of the dementia and she is elderly. She is in pain, confused and I think that the the decision not to do anything is inhumane, you wouldn't let an animal suffer this way unless you're sick and twisted. What can I do?? :mad:
     
  2. 2jays

    2jays Registered User

    Jun 4, 2010
    11,585
    West Midlands
    Can understand why they dont want to giv her anathestics..
    just googled treatment for broken collar bone and it says doesnt necessarily need op

    just need pain killers and proper support for the arm/ collar

    make sure she is getting pain killers xx
     
  3. Christin

    Christin Registered User

    Jun 29, 2009
    5,038
    Somerset
    Hello Memphisminstrel, I am so sorry to read about your mother. Has the hospital explained why they are unhappy to operate?

    I think if I were you, I would contact the Patient Advice and Liaison Service (PALS)

    Please let us know how you get on, and very best wishes to you and your mother x
     
  4. Hound them down.

    Hound them down until your Mum is out of pain.

    Prayers and thoughts are with your Mum and you.
     
  5. Bob S

    Bob S Registered User

    Mar 24, 2009
    392
    Welwyn Garden City
    Have the hospital made a best interests decision under the Mental Capacity Act to reach this conclusion?
     
  6. Keely

    Keely Registered User

    Aug 6, 2007
    95
    I am with Bob get the best interest person involved and get in touch with PALS at the hospital (Patient Advice and Laison) the contact should be clearly advertised in the hopsital if not look up the hospital's web site it should be on there. Sometimes collar bones are not treated by surgery but that decision should be in your mums best interest and not just because of age and dementia. The best interest person can force the hospital if they feel following discussions with family etc that this would be the best thing but the capicity issue needs resolving first again Best Interst Person should be able to do this. Your poor mum - I also agree that you make efforts to first get your mum out of pain - what is the hospital thinking off. Ask for the consultant or the unit manager (not the ward sister) as this is just wrong. Hope you are ok its bad enough we are upset trying to support our loved ones with out having the extra stress of fighting but unfortunately this is the age we live in . If you get no sense ring the consultants sec. direct to ensure your mum is out of pain. sending love and hugs. x
     
  7. Nebiroth

    Nebiroth Registered User

    Aug 20, 2006
    3,518
    Be aware that fracture of the clavicle is often not "treated" in the way that many other fractures are. This means it is not "set" or surgically repaired in the way that a broken limb or hip might be for example.

    Usually the broken bones in the clavicle "line up" so they do not need to be repositioned before they heal (whereas in a fractured leg, for example, the bones may not align properly and eventually heal in that position, leading to a permanent deformity; this is called a malunion). Also unlike, say, a broken hip complications are unlikely and general mobility is not impaired (except, of course, for the arm on the side of the fracture)

    Surgery is usually only necessary if the fracture has resulted in an obvious deformity or is open "ie has broken the skin). Repair may be done if the bone is not mending naturally after a reasonable length of time

    The normal procedure is to support the arm on the side of the fracture and give pain relief and then wait for the bone to heal. X-rays would be regularly taken to ensure the bones have not moved and are mending properly.

    At present, it is likely that the hospital feel the risks associated with a general - which are present with all patients but rise in the elderly - are simply not warranted for this type of fracture. This said your mum shouldn;t be in pain, if she is, then relief is inadequate. Again though, pain relief can be more difficult in the elderly as they have a lower tolerance for drugs. Also, pain relief can result in confusion in anyone but espescially if dementia is already present. They may be concerned that your mum could injure herself in a confused state.
     
  8. TinaT

    TinaT Registered User

    Sep 27, 2006
    7,095
    Bolton
    My mother fell two years ago and broke her collar bone in two places. It was decided because of her age (86) that the dangers of surgery far outweighed the benefits of the surgery. I brought her home to my house to recouperate but she developed a water infection which was so serious it threatened her life (she has very poor kidney function) and kept her in hospital for many weeks.

    She had physiotherapy, pain killers and two years on still has some pain and also restricted movement in her shoulder.

    I felt at the time that to fight the surgeon's decision would have put a great burden on my shoulders if the operation had gone wrong. I still do not know if I should have fought for the operation or not but at the end of the day I still have her here and alive and leading a reasonable life.

    xxTinaT
     
  9. FifiMo

    FifiMo Registered User

    Feb 10, 2010
    4,716
    Wiltshire
    Can I just add that if they are not operating, that what will be important is to ask the consultant to ensure that any sling etc that they put on is one which cannot be removed. My mother broke her shoulder and was put in a simple collar and cuff type foam sling but due to her dementia she kept taking her arm out of it and of course was in great pain and of course the broken bone was starting to slip out of place.. Eventually they strapped it up so that the arm was held in the right position but close to her body so she couldn't take it out. Once they had done this her pain more or less diappeared and the shoulder healed with more or less no displacement at all.

    Fiona
     
  10. memphisminstrel

    memphisminstrel Registered User

    Aug 18, 2011
    27
    #10 memphisminstrel, Dec 4, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 7, 2011
    Mum won't wear a sling, any they put she takes off. Have spoken to doctor at hospital she was taken to, gave some info about break. Got told on Friday when went to visit that they were going to send her to another hospital as 'they couldn't cope with her' she was wandering of a night. They apparently do not have anyone trained to deal with Dementia patients, this is despite being told they do have a secure unit. They had no transport so as far as we knew she was staying there, we refused to take her to the hospital. Went to visit on Saturday and she had gone, they had put her into a taxi and sent her to the hospital. Her handbag was still on the nurses station, she was originally coming home Friday, then they phoned and said no it's Monday now. The hospital have said to day, no she's not coming home, consultant will be seeing her on Monday, I am livid. She had one hell of a knock to her head and was very confused, especially as hospital moved her to different beds while she was in there. They've 'washed their hands of her'. It's 40 miles to the hospital, andan hour journey and one I am unable to make due to work and the animals. I think she is or will be entering the final stages since the knock to the head, she's muttering, is now shuffling when walking, and is basically away with the fairies. Her appetite has almost disappeared. Some days I am 'the person who works here' not her daughter. I
     
  11. Nebiroth

    Nebiroth Registered User

    Aug 20, 2006
    3,518
    The additional confusion may well be due to the pain relief. Or simply the physical trauma and the change of place, persons and routine.

    It is well recognised that patients with dementia often suffer from this when they have to enter hospital. In that they are likely to be receiving medication, suffering from an illness or injury and have suddenly been moved to a strange place with people they do not know.
     
  12. memphisminstrel

    memphisminstrel Registered User

    Aug 18, 2011
    27
    #12 memphisminstrel, Dec 6, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 7, 2011
    Found out today that hospital lied about her coming home, they sent her to the other hospital and she is being assessed there, we were NOT told this. The phsyciatrist on being told another patient has grabbed mum's arm (a huge bloke) has said that this is to be accepted. I DON'T THINK SO, :mad: whichever way you look at it, it's assult and not acceptable. (A doctor should ask for permission before he touches you as this can be regarded as assault to.) I am very concerned that if this bloke touches her when staff are present, what the hell will he do if there are no staff present if he gets the chance. I have reported this to Social Services, I am horrified that the hospitals do not give a damn about Dementia patients, the BBC did a report on 'Care homes/ NHS failing the elderly'. I also found out that despite hosp telling us there was not a bed available at hospital for her, the main reason they didn't tell us was they have an outbreak of V & D on the secure unit at hospital. At the moment the 2 hospitals are squabbling as to who will do the 'fracture' assessment on Thursday.:mad::mad:
     

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