Unusual situation

[Rooley]

Hi All - I'm in need of some advice on our somewhat unusual situation.

My Husband and I bought a bigger house so that Mum could come and live with us 5 years ago when she could no longer maintain her home. Mum put almost one third of the capital into the house from the sale of her previous home and although she's not on the deeds, we entered into a tenancy agreement to protect her investment if the house was sold in her lifetime.

In the home we have 2 children, one of which is only 5, the other is almost 18.

In terms of Mum's finances, the money she put into the home is considerable, more than the £23,250 threshold.

She's struggling now and I'm struggling to care for her on top of a very demanding full time job and a young family. It's come to the point where a care home is looking to be the option which gives Mum the best quality of life and care for her.

So - my question is, are we going to be forced to sell our home to release the capitol to pay for her care home?

Any ideas?

 

[jeany123]

Hi Rooley I know that if there is a child under 16 living in the house it does not have to be sold or used to pay CH fees but I do not know of anything else about your situation, I hope that others on here can help you ,

Best wishes Jeany x

 

[Rooley]

I hope you're right Jeany - we have so much to deal with right now that we could just do without a house move to deal with on top of it.

 

[Chemmy]

Hi Rooley

The definitive guide to this is CRAG

and this is referred to in section 7.003:

7.003 Where the resident no longer occupies a dwelling as his home, its value should still be disregarded where it is occupied in whole or in part by
• the resident's partner, former partner or civil partner (except where the resident is estranged or divorced from the partner, former partner or civil partner)
• a lone parent who is the claimant’s estranged or divorced partner
• a relative (as defined at 7.004) of the resident or member of the residents family (as defined at 7.007) who
- is aged 60 or over, or
- is a child of the resident aged under 18, or
- is incapacitated.

Your five year old is not a child of the resident (ie your mum) who is being financially assessed.

If you read further on, section 7.014, it looks as though your mum might have a beneficial interest in the property, so it might advisable to get proper legal advice on this. Is there any clarification in the original agreement you signed? If, for example, you decided to sell whilst she was still alive, does it say that she gets an agreed proportion of the money raised?

 

[FifiMo]

Hiya Rooley,

Firstly, can I suggest that you read and get familiar with CRAG 2012 (Charging for Residential Accommodation Guidance), which you can download online. This is the document that spells out how someone's contribution to their care is calculated and covers such issues as assets and deprivation of assets etc.

With regards to your particular situation, the starting point would probably be to consider whether she entered into this agreement prior to developing dementia or at least hilts she had the capacity to legally understand and accept the arrangements that she was agreeing to. If, for example, the dementia didn't get diagnosed until later, then the argument would be that at the time she was securing a life time tenancy to live with her family and one which would continue even if the existing property was sold and a new one purchased. What she appears to have bought is a lifetime (I am assuming) rental of a room in your property which at the time of the agreement, none of you could have anticipated her needing residential care.

I think your concern is that they might consider the agreement to represent deprivation of assets and whether they could retrospectively try and u pick the transactions. I would suggest that you get specific legal advice about the situation bit I assume you used a lawyer at the time to draw up the documents and in doing so the lawyer, I assume, must have been satisfied as to your mum's ability to enter into such agreement. On this basis the local authority would fine it difficult to prove that your mum had been deprived of assets.

Eats just sat however that hypothetically they were able to change the agreement and they insisted your mum should be on the title deeds as a joint owner, they still couldn't touch the property. This is where your understanding of CRAG would come in to play. It states that where there is a joint interest that can not be realised that they can make a estimate of the market value as part of considering how much she pays for her care. What would that market value be? Are you willing to sell her share and have a stranger come and live in their part of the house? Of course you aren't. In such a case the market value would only be what you can obtain on the open market. If you should sell the house then it would become a different matter.

As it stands your mum owns a lifetime rental agreement paid for in advance and in anticipation of her living with you for the rest of her life -that is what she has paid for. The initial outlay might have been substantial however if,at the time she anticipated living there for the next 25 years say, they it could have represented very good value for money. You can't be forced to sell a property which is not in her name. And even if her name was on the deeds they still couldn't force you to sell. The only time they could have gone after the money if the was a joint tenant would have been at the point of sale of the house,

There are some examples on CRAG about these types of scenarios, hence the reason I suggest you read it.

Hope this puts your mind at ease and as always this is based on my own experiences and I suggest you get some definitive legal advice in order to put your mind at rest.

Fiona

 

[Rooley]

Looks like I need to do some reading

Thanks Ladies - you're advice is invaluable

Looks like I need to get reading that CRAG document and then I will have questions for the legals.

thanks Again
Nicola