Treatment advise needed: My mother has alzheimer's & just been diagnosed with breast cancer

Tilly_123

New member
Oct 31, 2017
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I am looking for advise about treatment. We have been given 3 options and are unsure which route to take, we need to make a decision by tomorrow morning. The options are:
- hormone treatment, letrasol
- lumpectomy
- or mastectomy
We are anxious about the general anaesthetic and the long term effects, our main concern is her quality of life post op as well as her chances of making a full recovery. She has stage 1 breast cancer with 2cm diameter cancerous tumour.
We are looking for advise from anyone who has experience or is going through a similar situation them selves.
We desperately want what is best for mum.
Thank you
 

Amethyst59

Registered User
Jul 3, 2017
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Kent
Oh, Tilly, I am sorry to read this. You don’t say how old Mum is...or how advanced her dementia is. If she were my mum, these would both have an impact on my decision. I assume she cannot make her own wishes known? I really hope that this is seen by many people and you will get plenty of advice to inform your decision.
I guess a lumpectomy could be performed under a local anaesthetic? That would give two options without a general anaesthetic.
 

Starter

Registered User
Oct 10, 2015
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I’m afraid I haven’t any experience to offer you, but in your shoes I would take the least invasive route. Your poor mum has enough to put up with with Alzheimer’s without big ops and invasive treatments. What a terrible decision for you to have to make. Sending you big hugs xxx
 

love.dad.but..

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Jan 16, 2014
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Kent
I am sorry your mum has been given a double whammy of 2 illnesses. I agree...any treatment decision really depends on what stage of Alzheimer's she has reached?
 

Slugsta

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Aug 25, 2015
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South coast of England
Hi and welcome to TP - I am sorry that you have come to us in such difficult circumstances.

I cannot tell you what to do but things you should take into account your mum's age, general health and level of dementia/understanding when making your decision. As you say, general anaesthetics can play havoc with PWDs (persons with dementia) as can simply being out of their usual environment. Would your mother be able to understand what is happening if she had surgery? Would she be able to leave any sutures alone and keep the wound clean? What is her general state of hygiene (does she cope with her own personal care or allow someone to help? Is she continent?)? Is she generally well enough to withstand surgery?

My own mother was nearly 91 and her dementia was advancing rapidly when she was diagnosed with bowel cancer and secondaries earlier this year. There was no option of active treatment in her case, just doing whatever was necessary to keep her happy and comfortable.

Whatever you decide, please keep posting here. Most of us find this site an absolute lifeline!
 

Amy in the US

Registered User
Feb 28, 2015
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USA
@Tilly_123, hello and welcome to Talking Point. I'm so sorry to hear about your mother and that you've needed to find your way here.

As others have said, taking into consideration your mother's age, how advanced her dementia is, any other health problems she may have, and her personality and demeanor, may help you to make decisions.

For examples, my mother has Alzheimer's and is 75, has lived in her care home for 3 years, is in a dementia ward, and cannot care for herself at all. She is agitated by hospitals and tests and procedures. She required surgery this year for a fracture after a fall and it was a terrible experience for her, and for me.

This may not be the case for you and your mother, of course.

I think you need as much information as possible about what each treatment option would entail. (If you do choose a surgical option then if you are willing, I have some specific advice I would offer about that experience.). That way you can make as informed a decision as possible.

I'm not a physician or a medical expert, but if it's early stage breast cancer, then I doubt it's a life or death emergency and you could take more time to make a treatment decision. Can you speak to the oncologist/surgeon/consultant, explain about the dementia, and ask for more time? And ask any other questions you might have?

I'm so sorry you are in this horrible situation and hope you can find a way forward. There are other members here on TP who have had to make medical treatment decisions, large and small, about their person with dementia, and I hope they will be along to sure their experiences with you. Please feel free to post and ask questions about anything.
 

la lucia

Registered User
Jul 3, 2011
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I am looking for advise about treatment. We have been given 3 options and are unsure which route to take, we need to make a decision by tomorrow morning. The options are:
- hormone treatment, letrasol
- lumpectomy
- or mastectomy
We are anxious about the general anaesthetic and the long term effects, our main concern is her quality of life post op as well as her chances of making a full recovery. She has stage 1 breast cancer with 2cm diameter cancerous tumour.
We are looking for advise from anyone who has experience or is going through a similar situation them selves.
We desperately want what is best for mum.
Thank you

I have no knowledge of breast cancer and dementia but I do know that epidurals are the preferred method of anaesthesia for surgery IF it's possible and if it's available.

My mother had surgery under an epidural and it had no effect on her afterwards. She bounced back to how she was before very quickly. And she's 97.

Definitely worth asking if it is an option.
 

Theresalwaystomorrow

Registered User
Dec 23, 2017
343
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What a terrible thing got you to deal with, I’m so sorry and I’m sending hugs x
The main 2 questions really are her age and what stage she is at.
My mum had a mastectomy at 74yrs, she’s 87 yrs now with stage 6+ Alzheimer’s, so, the treatment have her these extra years but no way could she deal with that same trauma now with her Alzheimer’s so it really depends but a difficult decision for you x
 

Shedrech

Registered User
Dec 15, 2012
12,649
0
UK
hello @Tilly_123
without knowing how your mum is with the dementia, it's hard to advise
if the cancer is stage 1 she may well not die of it, so live out her life with it - and hormone treatment may well be tolerable and keep her comfortable, depending on any reactions to the drug - has the consultant not spelt out what each option means in the short and long term?
I am guessing that the consultant is happy to go ahead with surgery should you choose, so must conxider that your mum could cope
I had a lumpectomy, which has to be under general an..., and physically it was not a major trauma, in that most of the breast is unaffected and there is only a small wound to heal, but they do put a drain in place which your mum would need to deal with - it's uncomfortable so you are aware of it, but not painful - so post op her body will pretty much feel to her as it always has, and if she doesn't have to have follow up meds, once she has healed, it will be as though nothing happened
I then had a mastectomy with removal of lymph nodes and that, clearly has a major effect physically, and I wonder whether your mum would mentally cope with the complete removal which clearly cannot be overlooked
there have been other members who have had to make this decision so a search of the site using the box at the top of the page may find their threads
personally, I'd be looking at the hormone treatment as long as the cancer isn't aggressive and your mum can take the drug, and I mean both that she tolerates the drug itself and that she continues to be able to take the tablets
 

Tilly_123

New member
Oct 31, 2017
6
0
Hi everyone,
Thank you for all your replies and kind wishes, yep it is horrendous.
Many people asked about my Mum's age, she's 69 and has early (ish) Alzheimers and Vascular Dementia, she was diagnosed just over a year ago but has had cognitive problems for about 1-2 years previously. She is capable of making the decision herself, sort of, she is hygienic, not as much as before but still showers every day, puts makeup on etc.
Thank you.
 

Jasmine123

Registered User
Jan 22, 2014
42
0
Hi Tilly,

That's a really tough decision and am sorry that you have to be facing it.

My mother, while she had advanced Alzheimer's, though was 60, developed breast cancer. I'm not sure of what stage it was. Seeing as I thought my mother's quality of life was pretty poor we didn't want her to have any surgery so opted for letrosole. I think this worked really well, as it was just a tablet a day and I was unaware of her having any side affects from it. It seemed to keep the cancer in a stable situation based on subsequent scans but she didn't actually have too many additional scans as she became to ill to have scans.

I do remember the doctor saying letrosol was a suitable drug for women who were post menopausal as the side effects of the drug could be similar to the menopause. So if someone was badly affected by the menopause they may also be badly affected by Letrosol.

I hope I'm not too late for your decision.
 

Tilly_123

New member
Oct 31, 2017
6
0
Hi Jasmine,

So sorry to hear about your Mum, it's so cruel.

Thank you for your information and story, I think if the recovery rate was higher we would be more open to this treatment, I'm sorry to hear your mothers quality of life was poor, if my mums was at that stage I think we would definitely do the same as what you did. I think we've made the decision for the mastectomy, it's so horrible feeling making such a big a decision for someone else, though I guess I have to get used to this.

Thank you again for posting in this thread.

Hi Tilly,

That's a really tough decision and am sorry that you have to be facing it.

My mother, while she had advanced Alzheimer's, though was 60, developed breast cancer. I'm not sure of what stage it was. Seeing as I thought my mother's quality of life was pretty poor we didn't want her to have any surgery so opted for letrosole. I think this worked really well, as it was just a tablet a day and I was unaware of her having any side affects from it. It seemed to keep the cancer in a stable situation based on subsequent scans but she didn't actually have too many additional scans as she became to ill to have scans.

I do remember the doctor saying letrosol was a suitable drug for women who were post menopausal as the side effects of the drug could be similar to the menopause. So if someone was badly affected by the menopause they may also be badly affected by Letrosol.

I hope I'm not too late for your decision.
 

love.dad.but..

Registered User
Jan 16, 2014
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Kent
69 and early ish stage makes the decision harder in one sense if she is still able to make some decisions for herself. Dad in late moderate stage had an emergency hernia op he was 83 then but had a high non dementia related post op risk...the first anaesephetist advised against it but the surgeon..the second anaesephetist and I all agreed the risk was worth taking to stop the hernia strangulating qhich would have been life threatening and to give him pain free quality of life for what turned out to be 2 years. However..whilst dad recovered well and no effect from the anaesephetic he was always frightened of any procedure in his dementia even having his temp taken...I stayed in hospital with him and frankly post op it was awful because he couldn't understand what needed to be done...bp checks or why he was in pain...pulled canulas and stitches out. So depending what level of understanding your mum has these are things to consider...however if she is early stage she could live with dementia for quite a few years and least invasive treatment seems possible
 

Amy in the US

Registered User
Feb 28, 2015
4,616
0
USA
Hello again @Tilly_123, and I apologize in advance for a long post with a lot of advice you didn't ask for.

My mother (now 75 and middle to later stage Alzheimer's and no short term memory, care home for 3 years) has had two surgical procedures with dementia, one this year for a fracture, and one about five years ago, before her diagnosis but not before her dementia, if that makes sense.

Based on those experiences, here is what I'd recommend.

Speak to the anethesiologist before the procedure and emphasize your mother's mixed dementia and your concerns about anesthesia and its effect. Ask any questions you may have. They often have a terrible bedside manner, so be warned.

The next section is all from my mother's surgery in February, 2017.

I asked and was permitted to accompany my mother into the pre-operative waiting area (which they don't normally allow) because of her dementia. I stayed until she was sedated.

I asked to be present in post-op when they brought my mother out of theatre, but was denied and told they would page me to meet my mother in her room about two hours after the procedure ended. I got a page about five minutes after she went to post-op and told to come immediately as she was agitated and couldn't be calmed by staff. I stayed in the PACU with her until she went back to her room, and they fast-tracked her out of there.

As my mother currently lives in a care home, she was admitted to hospital the day before the procedure for all her pre-operative tests and preparation. The care home would not have been able to manage that, especially the blood work and having her NPO/nil by mouth before the surgery. It was bad enough in hospital.

I made sure to tell every single staff member, nurse, doctor, whomever, with whom we interacted, that my mother has dementia and cannot accurately self report or answer questions. I mostly did this out of her sight and hearing so as not to distress her. I always have a note with that information written on it, that I can hand to whoever is there. Some of the nurses would persist in asking her questions she could not answer. I stood out of her line of sight and nodded yes or no or shrugged, to give them the answers.

She could not be relied on to accurately report her pain, as she would not always be frank with members of staff (some variant of hostess mode), so I always had to make sure she was given her pain meds on schedule.

To keep track of that, and the name of every person I met, I had a hospital notebook and wrote everything down, including the names of the nurses and what shift they were on.

She could not order her own meals in hospital, so I did that for her. Her appetite was not good so I made sure she would have plenty of appealing foods.

She also didn't tolerate anything invasive, including injections (she required a daily injection to prevent blood clots) and the IV, well at all. She frequently removed her IV and they had to replace it many times, and put large dressings over it. She also would remove her leg brace and surgical dressings if not supervised 24/7, was confused by the airflow mattress she was on, and would get out of bed and walk unassisted if I so much as turned my back for more than ten seconds.

I could go on, but you get the idea. My most important piece of advice is to have someone with your mother as much as possible, ideally 24/7. My mother got hospital induced delirium and it was terrible; be on the watch for that. With luck your mother won't need a long hospital stay.

My mother had a very minor surgical procedure for a thyroid issue about five years ago. At the time she was not diagnosed with dementia, but in hindsight, she was early stage with her Alzheimer's and having some memory problems. Her capacity fluctuated. She was also resistant to help at the time, other than transport to appointment, and lived alone.

She was not able, and did not, follow the directions for before or after the surgery. She did not take her medication correctly. She did not take care of the wound correctly. Because of the dementia, she was not able to do those things. In hindsight (of course) I would have done all of this differently. Most importantly, I would have made sure she was supervised 24/7 before and after the surgery, or admitted to hospital for them to do it. She was lucky to escape complications.

I am not trying to upset or scare you, and apologize if that is what I've achieved. I only want you to be aware of some of the issues that a PWD and the family face with a surgical procedure and stay in hospital, and how you are going to cope with what she needs before and after surgery.

I would be happy to answer any questions you have if possible.

There is good info here: https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/info/20046/help_with_dementia_care/40/hospital_care

Very best wishes and hope all goes well.
 

love.dad.but..

Registered User
Jan 16, 2014
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Kent
I eclo everything Amy in the US has said from my experience with Dad...I stayed in with him for 2 weeks. It's things like I asked for him to be sedated to keep him calm when being taken down to pre op..and when he was coming round in recovery I was called in to say if his grimacing face would be likely due to pain which I immediately could say it was...as he couldn't verbalise. It was the lack of ability to communicate with hospital staff...lack of understanding and resistance to any procedure and trying to be a calming reasurrance 24/7 were key factors. However from your post I would think dad was more advanced than your mum
 

Lawson58

Registered User
Aug 1, 2014
4,388
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Victoria, Australia
Considering your mum's age and the fact that her Alzheimer's is not too advanced, I would be inclined to go with the lumpectomy though I can't quite understand what the rush is for you to make the decision. Another day or two is not going to change anything.

I had a lumpectomy quite a few years ago. Diagnosis wasn't as accurate as it is now and the surgeon who had been monitoring the lump for six months thought that it was better for it to be out than in. So one Christmas Eve, I found myself in hospital having the lump removed.

The procedure was not prolonged or painful and nowadays, things are probably more efficient than when I had it done. I was home that afternoon and able to cook Christmas dinner the next day.

Regarding the anesthetics, reactions for PWD can vary so it would be wise to have a very honest discussion with the anesthetist. My husband has had several general anesthetics since being diagnosed with AD and has had very few problems with them.

Tough call and I hope it works out well for you all.
 

Amethyst59

Registered User
Jul 3, 2017
5,776
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Kent
I have been reading this thread...I had a lumpectomy years ago...and it was done under a local as I was pregnant. It just might be another option for you to consider.