Top Up Fees

[Louise7]

Welcome to the forum POAMIL.

Thank You MaNaAk, I wonder why it's not the same for everyone who has POA.

Different care homes have different contracts. The contract for Mum's home had a section referring to top ups and I just crossed through it. The home only takes self-funders, not those funded by the LA (whose rates are a lot lower than the home's fees), so if Mum's funds run out she'd have to move elsewhere. Rather than the home 'trying it on' I saw it as them making it clear that they don't accept LA rates. They had no problems with the clause being ruled through. As above, care homes are businesses so they like to have assurances that their fees will get paid.

 

[jugglingmum]

I would also add that if you don't sign the contract but pay the fees you will be deemed to have accepted the terms of the contract.

 

[MaNaAk]

Thank You MaNaAk, I wonder why it's not the same for everyone who has POA. I think we will just add a note to the contract saying we do not agree with this clause. I think they are just trying it on at a very vulnerable time. My MIL had an incident at home, was taken to Hospital, assessed as being at risk of returning home even with extra care. The Hospital Social Worker gave us some options of Care homes as they just wanted her out of the hospital bed, understandably because of the Corona Virus. I had to choose just by looking online at the CQC reports and reviews. We have never met the manager and she hasn't even called my Husband, we just got the contract in the post, along with the bill so far to be paid and a direct debit for future payments. Clearly money is her only interest. I don't feel inclined to call her to discuss this as she can't be bothered to call us after my MIL being in her care for over 3 weeks. A member of staff has already called regarding a safe guarding issue but not the manager.

I'm very sorry for the loss of your Dad xxx

Thankyou POAMIL, not looking forward to 12th June, have you thought of emailing your local CAB. Mine were brilliant when I needed them most.

MaNaAk

 

[AliceA]

Hello, my Husband has POA for his mother. She is Self Funding. She has just went into a Care Home during the Corona Virus so we were unable to visit beforehand and/or speak with the Manager. We have just been sent a contract for My Husband to sign and one of the clauses is that he agrees to pay a Top Up Fee if and when his Mothers Money runs out. I am reserve attorney and if it was me I would absolutely refuse to agree to this clause. In the normal circumstances we probably would have been signing this contract in person with the Care Home manager and I would have voiced my thoughts then. As it is we are having to do it by post and I don't want my Husband to sign this. What should we do? Thank You

Please go to FaceBook group Safeguarding Futures. The organisers are extremely knowledgeable, they have a wealth of advice they offer to share based on many years of experience in Care and finance.
Do not agree under any circumstance.
Even councils try to get family to agree to top ups.
Families are not liable as it is against the Care Act 2014.
When your mother's funds run down to about £30, 000. Contact Adult Social Services warning that your mother is getting towards the financial limit.
Each council has a list of Care Homes, this gives a bit of breathing time to start looking.
When choosing I would advise that you do not consider what you would like for yourself. The swish hairdresser, the bar and the coffee shop are not the best criteria. Even en suites eventually become redundant as people need more help than imagined.
When someone is really ill they require kindness, abibility to choose not to do things, some need the odd day in bed or room. This is even before they are really frail.
Many home have Face book pages look at these and the activities offered, the faces of those there. These give clues of interaction with staff.
The Coronavirus Act is temporary, as is this situation. Seeing the manager is important, often they are not there at weekends. Perhaps the person to talk to is Head of Care, try and talk to other families too.
This helps to get a rounded.picture.
Your gut feeling is right, do not sign a contract, it is a contract but very open ended.
Even it it were affordable who knows what is around the corner?
If the Corvid virus teaches us anything it has taught us that.
Spend your money on more visits and treats for her.
Personally I would choose to bear in mind possible future issues, that is not go for the most expensive as this lessens the risk of a move. Check that they can cope with end of life needs as well as deteriorating mental health.

 

[Sirena]

I agree with those who advise to either not sign, or sign after striking out the top-up clause. My mother has been in a CH for two years and there was no such clause in the contract - I certainly wouldn't have agreed to it as we have no way of paying it. I believe her CH will keep her on at the LA rate if her money runs out, but if they won't she'll have to move.

As to whether they could 'force' you to pay a top up if you did sign it, I don't know. I assume what would happen is they would ask you to pay, you'd say no, and they would ask you to move your relative out. But whatever the outcome would be, of course don't sign agreeing to it.

 

[Rosettastone57]

Thank You MaNaAk, I wonder why it's not the same for everyone who has POA. I think we will just add a note to the contract saying we do not agree with this clause. I think they are just trying it on at a very vulnerable time. My MIL had an incident at home, was taken to Hospital, assessed as being at risk of returning home even with extra care. The Hospital Social Worker gave us some options of Care homes as they just wanted her out of the hospital bed, understandably because of the Corona Virus. I had to choose just by looking online at the CQC reports and reviews. We have never met the manager and she hasn't even called my Husband, we just got the contract in the post, along with the bill so far to be paid and a direct debit for future payments. Clearly money is her only interest. I don't feel inclined to call her to discuss this as she can't be bothered to call us after my MIL being in her care for over 3 weeks. A member of staff has already called regarding a safe guarding issue but not the manager.

I'm very sorry for the loss of your Dad xxx

My mother in law was self funding when she went into care in 2018. Both my husband and I were her attorneys. We refused to sign any top up fees section on the contract and I asked the home at the time, what would happen if my mother in law ran out of money . The response was that if my mother in law had been in the home for some time and considering her age then (92) they would not ask for top up fees , but rely on the LA rates. Obviously this was only a verbal response at the time and in fact the issue didn't arise as she passed away quite quickly. Perhaps because the home was run by a charity that might have made a difference.

 

[Sirena]

@Rosettastone57 I was told the same thing when I mentioned it last year. My mother's funds will run out after she has been in the CH for five years, and the manager told me she was sure the owner would agree to keeping her on the LA rate. Her CH is not run by a charity but it is privately owned, rather than a chain.