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Third Party Top Up Fees

twinklestar

Registered User
Sep 14, 2014
84
I recently asked a question about funding 24/7 care. My real question is - what is your experience of paying the top-up fee? Has anyone managed to negotiate not paying it?
 

Saffie

Registered User
Mar 26, 2011
22,514
Near Southampton
I don't think you have to negotiate not paying top-up fees, you just refuse to do so.
The top-ups around here were more than the LA contribution and my husband's combined. i.e. over £500 a week, so I knew they would be unsustainable for me to pay for more than a very limited time once he became non self-funding.

The downside of this is that if there is a home which charges less but can fulfill the resident's needs then that is what you have to accept.
However, you can try to argue the case that an extra facility is necessary or that a move from a familar home would prove detrimental to health if that is appropriate.

Bear in mind that top-ups will probably increase annually when fees go up.
 

Spiro

Registered User
Mar 11, 2012
520
Doesn't the Care Act 2014 have an effect on the issue of top up fees? As in, if a home meets the assessed needs of the service user, then the LA has to pay the difference.

Or does this only apply to people going into care after 1st April 2015?
 
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Pickles53

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
2,474
Radcliffe on Trent
1 believe that the new act allows for the payment of top-up fees by the 'first party' ie the care home resident, but not sure if it has any other effect.

The 'cap' on care fees calculation applies only to the LA rate for self-funders even if they are paying a lot more than that.
 

Saffie

Registered User
Mar 26, 2011
22,514
Near Southampton
Doesn't the Care Act 2014 have an effect on the issue of top up fees? As in, if a home meets the assessed needs of the service user, then the LA has to pay the difference.

Or does this only apply to people going into care after 1st April 2015?
Yes, I thought that was what I said though maybe in a different way. No top-up will be required if the home fulfills the resident's needs and falls within the LA budget. If more is wanted and the home is more expensive then a top-up will be needed.
This was the same prior to April 2015.

I believe that what has changed is that a top-up can now be paid from the resident's (or service user's but I hate that term!) own capital.

The downside of this is that if there is a home which charges less but can fulfill the resident's needs then that is what you have to accept.
 
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Spiro

Registered User
Mar 11, 2012
520
The 'cap' on care fees calculation applies only to the LA rate for self-funders even if they are paying a lot more than that.
This means when SS do the Community Care Assessment (if they do one), that they need to make clear to self-funders that they might have to move to a different home when the money runs out, because the LA won't pay.

I thought the Care Act had an effect on this issue - particularly regarding care home fees and top ups. Sorry, didn't meant to hijack this thread.

Pickles53, if this needs a long and detailed explanation, please could you PM me?
 

nitram

Registered User
Apr 6, 2011
20,857
North Manchester
Since April first party top-ups have been allowed but only if a deferred payment scheme for property has been agreed

From April 2016 this restriction will be removed and all residents will be able to pay top-ups
 
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Spiro

Registered User
Mar 11, 2012
520
Yes, I thought that was what I said though maybe in a different way.
Saffie, please accept my apologies as I misread your post. I too, dislike the term "service user"
 
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Soobee

Registered User
Aug 22, 2009
2,733
South
I was asked to pay it for my mum but refused because she had been moved to the cheapest nursing home from the next cheapest one which had safeguarding issues. When I complained about being asked to pay they backed down very quickly.

If you can bear to, I would call their bluff on it. No-one can make you pay anything. I am not that sure an authority would move a resident if you have valid reasons why they are in a particular care facility and have settled there - unless it was well above
the going rate they usually pay.
 

Pete R

Registered User
Jul 26, 2014
2,036
Staffs
Since April first party top-ups have been allowed but only if a disregard for property has been agreed.
Is that not just the 12 week disregard? Also cannot first party top up's be paid for if a deferred payment scheme is in place as long as the LA think it is sustainable?
 

nitram

Registered User
Apr 6, 2011
20,857
North Manchester
"Is that not just the 12 week disregard? Also cannot first party top up's be paid for if a deferred payment scheme is in place as long as the LA think it is sustainable?"

You are correct, I meant to say :-

Since April first party top-ups have been allowed but only if a deferred payment scheme for property has been agreed.

I have edited the post with attribution to you.
 

Pete R

Registered User
Jul 26, 2014
2,036
Staffs
"Is that not just the 12 week disregard? Also cannot first party top up's be paid for if a deferred payment scheme is in place as long as the LA think it is sustainable?"

You are correct, I meant to say :-

Since April first party top-ups have been allowed but only if a deferred payment scheme for property has been agreed.

I have edited the post with attribution to you.
It does also apply to the 12 week disregard period as well, doesn't it?
 

nitram

Registered User
Apr 6, 2011
20,857
North Manchester
"It does also apply to the 12 week disregard period as well, doesn't it?"

Yes, I think it did before the Care Act, the rationale is to allow potential self funders to chose a home with fees above the LA tariff.