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Third Party Top Up Fees

Discussion in 'I care for a person with dementia' started by twinklestar, May 4, 2015.

  1. twinklestar

    twinklestar Registered User

    Sep 14, 2014
    84
    I recently asked a question about funding 24/7 care. My real question is - what is your experience of paying the top-up fee? Has anyone managed to negotiate not paying it?
     
  2. Saffie

    Saffie Registered User

    Mar 26, 2011
    22,497
    Female
    Near Southampton
    I don't think you have to negotiate not paying top-up fees, you just refuse to do so.
    The top-ups around here were more than the LA contribution and my husband's combined. i.e. over £500 a week, so I knew they would be unsustainable for me to pay for more than a very limited time once he became non self-funding.

    The downside of this is that if there is a home which charges less but can fulfill the resident's needs then that is what you have to accept.
    However, you can try to argue the case that an extra facility is necessary or that a move from a familar home would prove detrimental to health if that is appropriate.

    Bear in mind that top-ups will probably increase annually when fees go up.
     
  3. Spiro

    Spiro Registered User

    Mar 11, 2012
    522
    #3 Spiro, May 4, 2015
    Last edited: May 4, 2015
    Doesn't the Care Act 2014 have an effect on the issue of top up fees? As in, if a home meets the assessed needs of the service user, then the LA has to pay the difference.

    Or does this only apply to people going into care after 1st April 2015?
     
  4. Pickles53

    Pickles53 Registered User

    Feb 25, 2014
    2,482
    Radcliffe on Trent
    1 believe that the new act allows for the payment of top-up fees by the 'first party' ie the care home resident, but not sure if it has any other effect.

    The 'cap' on care fees calculation applies only to the LA rate for self-funders even if they are paying a lot more than that.
     
  5. Saffie

    Saffie Registered User

    Mar 26, 2011
    22,497
    Female
    Near Southampton
    #5 Saffie, May 4, 2015
    Last edited: May 4, 2015
    Yes, I thought that was what I said though maybe in a different way. No top-up will be required if the home fulfills the resident's needs and falls within the LA budget. If more is wanted and the home is more expensive then a top-up will be needed.
    This was the same prior to April 2015.

    I believe that what has changed is that a top-up can now be paid from the resident's (or service user's but I hate that term!) own capital.

     
  6. Spiro

    Spiro Registered User

    Mar 11, 2012
    522
    This means when SS do the Community Care Assessment (if they do one), that they need to make clear to self-funders that they might have to move to a different home when the money runs out, because the LA won't pay.

    I thought the Care Act had an effect on this issue - particularly regarding care home fees and top ups. Sorry, didn't meant to hijack this thread.

    Pickles53, if this needs a long and detailed explanation, please could you PM me?
     
  7. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    19,042
    Male
    North Manchester
    #7 nitram, May 4, 2015
    Last edited: May 5, 2015
    Since April first party top-ups have been allowed but only if a deferred payment scheme for property has been agreed

    From April 2016 this restriction will be removed and all residents will be able to pay top-ups
     
  8. Spiro

    Spiro Registered User

    Mar 11, 2012
    522
    #8 Spiro, May 4, 2015
    Last edited: May 4, 2015
    Saffie, please accept my apologies as I misread your post. I too, dislike the term "service user"
     
  9. Soobee

    Soobee Registered User

    Aug 22, 2009
    2,734
    South
    I was asked to pay it for my mum but refused because she had been moved to the cheapest nursing home from the next cheapest one which had safeguarding issues. When I complained about being asked to pay they backed down very quickly.

    If you can bear to, I would call their bluff on it. No-one can make you pay anything. I am not that sure an authority would move a resident if you have valid reasons why they are in a particular care facility and have settled there - unless it was well above
    the going rate they usually pay.
     
  10. Saffie

    Saffie Registered User

    Mar 26, 2011
    22,497
    Female
    Near Southampton
    No need to apologise Spiro. We all read things in a hurry. :)
     
  11. Pickles53

    Pickles53 Registered User

    Feb 25, 2014
    2,482
    Radcliffe on Trent
    Spiro it looks like your pm inbox is full?
     
  12. Spiro

    Spiro Registered User

    Mar 11, 2012
    522
    Thanks for letting me know - I've made some space.
     
  13. Pete R

    Pete R Registered User

    Jul 26, 2014
    2,046
    Staffs
    Is that not just the 12 week disregard? Also cannot first party top up's be paid for if a deferred payment scheme is in place as long as the LA think it is sustainable?
     
  14. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    19,042
    Male
    North Manchester
    "Is that not just the 12 week disregard? Also cannot first party top up's be paid for if a deferred payment scheme is in place as long as the LA think it is sustainable?"

    You are correct, I meant to say :-

    Since April first party top-ups have been allowed but only if a deferred payment scheme for property has been agreed.

    I have edited the post with attribution to you.
     
  15. Pete R

    Pete R Registered User

    Jul 26, 2014
    2,046
    Staffs
    It does also apply to the 12 week disregard period as well, doesn't it?
     
  16. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    19,042
    Male
    North Manchester
    "It does also apply to the 12 week disregard period as well, doesn't it?"

    Yes, I think it did before the Care Act, the rationale is to allow potential self funders to chose a home with fees above the LA tariff.
     

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