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The effects of a Dols order on me

Marnie63

Registered User
Dec 26, 2015
1,629
Hampshire
I had no idea DOLS meant certain rules had to be followed after the affected person dies. Mum is still at home with me and the only time it has ever been discussed in relation to her when she was on a respite stay and they were going to apply for one (but never did).

It seems there have been varying experiences, but if mum ever goes into a home, I will certainly check exactly what it would mean in her case (whether I'd have any say in the matter I don't know - probably not). I'm pleased this thread has highlighted these issues. If it meant that mum was subject to some kind of 'police intervention' after her death, then to me that would just be the final insult to her, and me, having experienced this whole dementia nightmare. What a very bizarre process.
 

istherelight?

Registered User
Feb 15, 2017
128
My Mum's CH highlighted what Pete R said...that it can take a long time for the DOLS process to take place but that they can "fast track" in an emergency.


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stanleypj

Registered User
Dec 8, 2011
10,708
North West
I had no idea DOLS meant certain rules had to be followed after the affected person dies.
I'm not sure whether this is correct. Police are not mentioned at all in online articles about DOLS that I have read. It's also clear from the thread that people have had different experiences in this respect. They certainly weren't mentioned when we went through the DOLS process with my wife who is in a home. I found the process quite useful, incidentally, in that the assessor picked up on the fact that the NH had allowed Sue to lose a very significant amount of weight and one of the conditions of the DOLS order was that this issue should be addressed.
 

sue38

Registered User
Mar 6, 2007
10,854
52
Wigan, Lancs
I think the problem is that someone who dies whilst under a DoLS is regarded as being 'held in state detention' which sounds horrible, and there are moves to remove this status, however I think they have been held up as Stanley has pointed out.

I have come across a flowchart which I have attached, but not sure whether this is followed in every case. I know of someone whose mother's death was very much expected but still the Police were called.

My mum is subject to a DoLS and although I have been consulted about it fully at no time have I been informed about what will happen on her death. Thanks to TP I'm now fully aware and have pre-warned family members what to expect.
 

Attachments

Pete R

Registered User
Jul 26, 2014
2,038
Staffs
Yes, it seems that there were plans to reform the current system (which itself is only a few years old) but these plans have now been put on hold:

https://courtofprotectionhandbook.com/2016/12/01/dols-reform-delayed/
Not put on hold but the report was delayed a few months and has now been published.....
http://www.lawcom.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/lc372_mental_capacity.pdf

I have only had a quick look but the recommendations are that if the person is being placed in a CH by the LA then the DoLS is sorted as part of the placing process and should specify the restrictions needed. However this should only apply to those that show signs on not wanting to go into care or accept medication for example. It is not to used for all. Obviously if a compliant person changes once in care then an authorisation is requested as normal.

Hospitals will have someone decide who needs a DoLS.

Self funders will be assessed by the CH and authorisation requested in the same way if needed. Civil penalty if requests are not made and deprivation is taking place.

A DoLS will be made transferable rather than just restricted to a single CH/Hospital.

The report still has to be accepted by government and placed into law.

:)
 

Pete R

Registered User
Jul 26, 2014
2,038
Staffs
I think the problem is that someone who dies whilst under a DoLS is regarded as being 'held in state detention'
I have just found that the Policing and Crime Bill 2017 which came into law on 31st January has amended the previous laws and someone subject to a DoLS is now NOT considered to be in "state detention" anymore.

This then removes the automatic need for an inquest.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2017/3/pdfs/ukpga_20170003_en.pdf
Search for "state detention".

http://www.communitycare.co.uk/2016...deprivation-liberty-safeguards-inquests-duty/
 

Pete R

Registered User
Jul 26, 2014
2,038
Staffs
Police are not mentioned at all in online articles about DOLS that I have read.
Although the coroner conducts any investigation they do not actually go out and do the "CSI" type stuff. The Police do that side of it at request of the coroner.

:)
 

stanleypj

Registered User
Dec 8, 2011
10,708
North West
As regards the concerns raised in this thread, should people be reassured or worried about the possible involvement of police?
 

Marnie63

Registered User
Dec 26, 2015
1,629
Hampshire
PMs?

Slightly related question - does anyone know the rules regarding death due to dementia and post mortems? My father died of cancer in hospital and had no PM. If my mum dies at home 'of dementia' or related complications, will she have to have a PM done? A few times I've been on the verge of asking our GP, but I'm a bit nervous of doing so in case he puts a note on our files ("check for possible suspicious circumstances after death"!). The thought of mum having a PM does fill me with horror, but of course I understand why they exist. Just wondered if someone is elderly and has obvious illnesses, but dies at home without the presence of any medical staff, would they still need to go through a PM?
 

Pete R

Registered User
Jul 26, 2014
2,038
Staffs
Slightly related question - does anyone know the rules regarding death due to dementia and post mortems? My father died of cancer in hospital and had no PM. If my mum dies at home 'of dementia' or related complications, will she have to have a PM done? A few times I've been on the verge of asking our GP, but I'm a bit nervous of doing so in case he puts a note on our files ("check for possible suspicious circumstances after death"!). The thought of mum having a PM does fill me with horror, but of course I understand why they exist. Just wondered if someone is elderly and has obvious illnesses, but dies at home without the presence of any medical staff, would they still need to go through a PM?
If your GP or other Doctor is willing to sign a Death Certificate with the cause then all you need to do is call a funeral directors.

:)
 

Chemmy

Registered User
Nov 7, 2011
7,591
Yorkshire
As regards the concerns raised in this thread, should people be reassured or worried about the possible involvement of police?
Personally I'd be reassured. Better to err on the side of caution, imo. I had to identify my dad's body in the morgue and the sensitivity of the police and the hospital were second to none.
 

stanleypj

Registered User
Dec 8, 2011
10,708
North West
Why would they be worried?:confused:
The thread was started because someone was worried and several other posts suggest that she is not the only one, e.g. Drucie's (A very abrupt call from the police followed, within the space of 20 minutes to inform me that Mum's body had been removed to the hospital mortuary and that I would hear back from the coroner.......Because of the DOLs, Mum in death is receiving the same status as if she were a prisoner in "state detention". Yet Mum has paid for her own imprisonment)
 

Pete R

Registered User
Jul 26, 2014
2,038
Staffs
The thread was started because someone was worried and several other posts suggest that she is not the only one, e.g. Drucie's (A very abrupt call from the police followed, within the space of 20 minutes to inform me that Mum's body had been removed to the hospital mortuary and that I would hear back from the coroner.......Because of the DOLs, Mum in death is receiving the same status as if she were a prisoner in "state detention". Yet Mum has paid for her own imprisonment)
Yes worried about the involvement of the coroner and a possible PM but not specifically about Police involvement.
 

Plymum

Registered User
Jan 9, 2014
135
Could anyone tell me if I ( her daughter and POA) should be involved in the DOLs application? (My Mum is in a Nursing Home)


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stanleypj

Registered User
Dec 8, 2011
10,708
North West
Could anyone tell me if I ( her daughter and POA) should be involved in the DOLs application? (My Mum is in a Nursing Home)


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You should certainly be informed about an application by those who are applying. When the Nursing Home applied for DoLs for my wife, they did not bother to inform me (par for the course) and I only found out when the assessor phoned me.

You may have already been on the Alz Society website but if not there is a lot of useful information here:

https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/google_results.php?q=Dols&_ga=1.216303891.428393088.1433590610
 

notsogooddtr

Registered User
Jul 2, 2011
916
When my father died in October he was subject to a DOLS order.The police were not called,his death although rather sudden was not 'unexpected',he was 95 and had been seen by the NH GP the previous week.I think that was quite important even though it was just a routine check.An out of hours dr was called and pronounced him dead but he could not issue a death certificate.The funeral director we had chosen was called and duly arrived to remove his body.He died on the Sunday,I received a call from the coroners office on the Tuesday asking some straightforward questions.The death certificate was then issued.