Telegraph Article

lesmisralbles

Account Closed
Nov 23, 2007
5,543
So, let us all be carefull out there.
I think it is called the silent cosh.
God help us all, we are all going to get old.
BarbX
 

hendy

Registered User
Feb 20, 2008
506
West Yorkshire
Dear Carolyn
Many thanks for posting the link. I can say from direct experience that my dad was 'coshed' until he couldn't take anti-psychotics any more, due to life threatening side effects. This lasted for two years. It undoubtedly made him easy to manage because he was almost always comatose. When he was taken off this medication, the nursing home failed to nurse him properly in all sorts of ways. This led directly to him being hospitalised. My dad has multiple problems, vascualr dementia being just one, the 'standard' medications seem to be the same though. But I am amazed at the regularity that Gp's seem to prescribe them to people who are still living in their own home. The effects that i've seen of these drugs(various ones) over the years have been extreme. What I dont understand is why these drugs are not given under much closer medical supervision? I am speaking from my own and Dads experience of these drugs (he is ultra sensitive to them). Possibly for other sufferers they do bring relief. But I do think that we should question doctors decisons much more carefully if we can. When I read posts about drugs like this, I always wonder how much people are really told about them?
take care
hendy
 

Carolynlott

Registered User
Jan 1, 2007
232
Newcastle upon Tyne
So what's the alternative if someone is being aggressive, lashing out and attacking others? Might it not be better to be "comatose" rather than be agitated and distressed - for the individual as well as those they are sharing a home/living with? For someone who is constantly in anguish and torment maybe comatose is an improvement, some sort of peace from a living hell. I don't know - I am not judging, I just don't know the answer.
C
 

Margarita

Registered User
Feb 17, 2006
10,824
london
I don't know - I am not judging, I just don't know the answer.
No one does , that why like hendy says

we should question doctors decisons much more carefully if we can

because at the end of the day its only the person that live in the home know what is really like to live with someone who is being aggressive, lashing out and attacking others so like you say no one can Judge them
 

hendy

Registered User
Feb 20, 2008
506
West Yorkshire
Dear Carolyn
You might well be right, I suppose everyone's circumstances are different. When you see your loved one suffering from the anguishes of their behaviour,or going through a living hell, it is a relief when there is calm. I agree. Perhaps there's no other option for some.
take care
hendy
 

lesmisralbles

Account Closed
Nov 23, 2007
5,543
Silent Cosh

Forgive me all of you.
I do understand the no sleep, the aggression and anger ( not from my Ron) but other's I have seen. BUT, for many, like Ron, he does not need to be sedated, other people do, for them, and the carer. If only for a good night's sleep.
But, I have also seen people in nursing homes, coshed. Yes, it happen's.
Barb X
 

gigi

Registered User
Nov 16, 2007
7,788
67
East Midlands
e. Perhaps there's no other option for some.
I agree with Hendy on that..

I also think that we need to be looking at "Quality of life"..

Not just for sufferers of dementia..but carers as well...

The article seems to be implying that we save someone suffering from Dementia..in its extreme..from having a stroke...if they are not given said medications...

But condemn them..and their carers, to a living hell of torment and anguish without the drugs?

I'm not there yet in my role as a carer..and I do think there's a long way to go before we have any answers..

Until then we're all between a rock and a hard place..

It has to be up to the individuals involved..

In my opinion risk assessment has gone too far..and "quality of life" is what counts..

Love gigi xx
 

lesmisralbles

Account Closed
Nov 23, 2007
5,543
Quality of life

Gigi
How right you are.
Quality, yes it is what count's.
Mr Yum Yum, curry head agree's with me ( see earlier post)
Love Barb & Ron (Mr Chain saw, yum, yum):)
 

Margarita

Registered User
Feb 17, 2006
10,824
london
it does make me wonder &
question look at the whole perceptive in how I perceived or even how most of the public generalize people with AZ to look like as in comatose looking .

If my mother never had AZ/ VD that how I would of thought my mother was meant to end up looking like comatose, but its not true its a Myth

This myth of people with AZ end up looking comatose is because its drug induce comatose state .

I only say this because my 24 year old daughter saw an elderly man we new who use to be so lively always coming up to us talking to us .

Then when my daughter saw him at the AZ day center when she came with me when mum had an assessment, she was amazed how life less he look compared to how he use to be & compared to how my mother still is so lively looking , that made her comment out of the blue on the way home to me that may be his may be on ant psychotic drugs as that why he now look so life less

which made me think for the last few weeks , is that why the general public think people with AZ end up looking comatose , not because they how they really meant to be like that , but because its drug induce


But, I have also seen people in nursing homes, coshed.
what does coshed mean ?
 
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jane@hotmail

Registered User
Mar 13, 2008
49
Bedfordshire
I have only just taken over complete responsibility for my mum. My dad was very anti anti psychotic drugs, but he hit crisis point a few times and they had to be prescribed. The doctor is cutting down on her anti psychotic drugs at the moment, but I wonder how will manage without them. She spends all day petrified that there are men in the garden that are going to kill her. She talks to herself constantly, working herself into panic attacks. I can do nothing to reassure her, infact, she calls me a liar and tries to pinch my face or pull my hair. It's heartbreaking to see. When she takes them, she's just calmer and not so scared all the time. I feel that I'm doing her wrong, if she's on them, but I know her quality of life is better when she is. Maybe, I also feel guilty because MY quality of life is better too......
 

lesmisralbles

Account Closed
Nov 23, 2007
5,543
Margarita
Coshed mean's, drug induced calmness, sleep. But it also can mean, in a nursing home, keep them all asleep, easy to ,manage.

And for some, well that is the way to go. If they are calmer with the drugs' and it help's them - well, so be it. And, if it help's the carer - to care,the same applies.
BarbX
 

Helena

Registered User
May 24, 2006
715
Until someone comes up with a better solution for managing the aggression ,lashing out etc that occurs with dementia patients theres probably no real answer to this matter

However for me its Quality of Life over Quantity and i firmly believe we should all have the right when we are fully fit and well to set out exactly under what circumstances we want treatment ,,,,,,,,,,yes it means proper discussions about Euthanasia etc but just how many people on this forum cannot bear to see what happening to their loved ones and vehemently do not want the same for themselves

I for one never want to be a mindless vegetable and my family know it
 

CraigC

Registered User
Mar 21, 2003
6,632
London
My personal thougths.

I think the Alzheimers Society is right to highlight this issue and to campaign for awareness. What makes me very uncomfortable is the blanket claim in the article that care homes are using these drugs to keep the residents quite. This may be true is some cases, but I honestly believe that many care homes are unaware of the potential dangers of long term use of these drugs.

This kind of journalism is dangerous in that it always promotes an 'us and them' culture. The Alzheimers Society and the government need to work together to support and encourage the care homes and GPs to monitor the use of drugs in care homes. They also need to give the care homes the right support and advice to help deal with the issues that may arise when some patients are taken off these drugs. Along with a cash funding commitment to help homes to look into viable alternatives.

We either work together with the care homes or they start closing down and we have no where to find care for the people who need it the most.

I'm not saying there are not bad care homes, but just that there are many good homes who need more information and support when it comes to this issue. The blanket critism of all care homes is a little irresponsible and just makes a nice soundbite to help sell the paper. What always saddens me reading this kind of journalism is the lack of viable alternatives or the discussion of viable solutions - that would be responsible journalism.

Just my humble opinion
Kind Regards
Craig
 

lesmisralbles

Account Closed
Nov 23, 2007
5,543
Your opimion is alway's welcome

Craig,
I did not want to be seen as saying all nursing homes are bad.

First experience:-
Mother in law
Excellent home. Rowanhurst. Excellent care. Closed down now. Land is now a block of flat's. The owner's told us, could not afford to keep up with the regulation's.

Step Father, well he had (mental problem's) no, demantia.
His weight was 13 stone, when he died, 6 stone. Illness caused this, perhap's, but if mum was not there to feed him, he did not get fed.

Sister in law
I cannot even go into all the detail's.
Have you ever seen anyone buried with their knee's under their chin. do not even get me started. This place is still trading.

I could make your toes curl.
Barb
 

CraigC

Registered User
Mar 21, 2003
6,632
London
My comments were/are aimed at the journalist, government and the alzheimers societies handling of the issues, not any individual poster :confused:

Like everyone here I've seen my fair share of suffering and my focus still lies with protecting the vunerable, particulary the elderly.

Sorry if my post came across in the wrong way.
 

ishard

Registered User
Jul 10, 2007
98
I truy couldnt look after my mum if she wasnt prescribed anti psychotics as she is very agressive and violent (and with knives and sticks) at times. She also thinks we (the family) steal from her and so do the neighbours!

I do know the long term effect of serequel but AD is life limiting anyway and its better that mum isnt so agressive and violent and btw also very distressed without the drug. She doesnt have so much that she is comotose just happyier with herself.

Quality of life is much more important than quantity.
 
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