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Still dithering - costs and is it the right time.

flossielime

Registered User
May 8, 2014
201
Hi

The other day I had pretty much decided that the time was right for a care home. My dad is great in the day but does not sleep at night and is complelled to leave the house. The CPN told me we had come to the end of the road trying medication so my husband persuaded me to look at care homes.

I have his name down for 2 homes. I am note sure when a place will come up, but the guess in both is Dec/Jan time maybe.

I am now dithering again - my dad has been really good all weekend- only woke once on both Friday and Saturday. Although back to 7 and 10 times the last 2 nights.

The carer I had doing 3 nights, has said he will go up to 5 nights- so the work load will be a lot less for me.

BUT the short fall between my dad's incoming and outgoings are about £300 a week once all carers are paid. So about £1200. LA wont pay anything as he has a private pension and they think he only needs 7 hours care a week or 24/7 care- nothing inbetween!!!

My dad has no savings as such but he does have a £3000/£4000 in his current account that would cover a few months.

As mentioned before he has a house to sell when he does go into a care home.

I have about £10,000 in a savings account my mum and dad gave me years ago (well before he had AD). He gave me the money to take the kids to Florida. At the time I felt they were too young and then since he was diagnosed we couldn't go away for more than a few days due to caring responsibilities. so basically the money is still sat there - I am thinking that would buy him another 6 months at home with night carers.

What would you do?

Other information is both husband and I both work with reasonable pay and could probably save up to take kids to Florida in the future although it would take us years.

Also to add more to the dither - mum is in a NH (we currently pay a £200 a month top up)- and when dad goes into care home she goes self funding so the gap that the house would have to pay for and income would be more like £700 a week so nearly £3000 a month!!!!

Sorry to waffle.
 
Last edited:

jaymor

Volunteer Moderator
Jul 14, 2006
12,930
England
Hi Flossielime,

It is a very difficult call and Only you are going to be able to make the dicission.

There is a plus, if you can call it a plus in your situation but once your Mum becomes self funding she will get her pension back and if she qualified for attendance allowance then that should be reinstated too. So that's a little to go towards the fees.

Jay
 

flossielime

Registered User
May 8, 2014
201
Thanks - factored in the pension - but forgot about the attendance allowance for mum- so that would reduce costs a bit in by 300ish a month to £2700.

Just really not sure what to do for the best - has anyone got any thoughts please.
 
Last edited:

flossielime

Registered User
May 8, 2014
201
I would really, really appreciate some thoughts at all on my situation - my dad seems so ok the last few day (since mirtazapene was stopped) I just dont know know what to do.
 

LolaJane

Registered User
Jun 24, 2014
31
St aughustine fl
I would say to keep him on the list and when the time comes, then make your decision. I think it will be clear, or at least clearer, after a month or so. You can't make decisions based on one week's passage.
 

Gigglemore

Registered User
Oct 18, 2013
526
British Isles
So difficult - if only this condition was more predictable someone could advise you whether or not the nighttime wandering is just a phase that you might get past soon. What has your Dad said about going into a home? Is he still close to your Mum? Is one of the waiting lists for the same home?

If you feel that he will enjoy the company in a home, especially if he wants to/can be with your Mum then it will take away the strain for you and ensure he will be safe at night. But if you think he will hate leaving his house I think it makes sense to do what LolaJane suggests and make a decision if and when a suitable place comes up. As the weather gets colder, his wandering at night will become more of a concern if it does continue.

Maybe you feel guilty about depriving your children of a special holiday but I feel that you have already made the decision to spend the £10,000 on your Dad if you think it is in his best interests.

So sorry you are in such a difficult position. You are doing so much to support your Dad and ensure he is as safe as possible it must be hard to have this extra burden of trying to decide what will be best for him.
 

flossielime

Registered User
May 8, 2014
201
Thanks so much for your replies.

The home my mum is in is a NH and does not take EMI. There wont take my dad. They do have residents with dementia BUT only when physical frail. It is not secure my dad would wander off so No his name is not down for there.

He does not want to go into a home. Loves his house, garden, neighbours, paper shop. Even likes the regular cares. But he has no capacity. On a bad night he does not remember from one minute to the next that he is retired and not going out to work. He has no awareness of his wandering.

My mum does not want him to go into a care home - but despite having full capacity and being an intelligent women she can not understand the cost implication and seems to think husband and I can pick up the 'slack' with 'pin' money!

My husband thinks dad may like care home as he is very sociable and likes an audience for his stories. I used to hate the idea and thought he would be climbing the walls if he could not get out. But now I have seen 2 nice homes I think maybe he would be ok.
 

Jessbow

Registered User
Mar 1, 2013
3,015
West Hertfordshire
Could you do a respite break while you do something on the house at one of the homes - a trial fortnight, with a view to staying if its good?
 

flossielime

Registered User
May 8, 2014
201
Only 1 of the 2 homes I have his name down for will take respite/trail. It is the more expensive of the 2 and the only the LA does not deal with - we would need to pay full cost of respite £850 a week plus I'd have to pay the home carers I have to keep them on stand by in case it dose not work out. Plus I will only know if the room comes up at short notice so would not get chance to give the carers notice of no work (couldn't do that to them, when they are so good near to Christmas). I do have 6 agency carer hours to so would not need to pay them. So anyway doing the trail thing would seriously eat into dads/our cash. that said it is still a good option I think.
 

Oxy

Registered User
Jul 19, 2014
955
I would work out how many years you could pay for care from proceeds of house and use that knowledge to make decision. Carers when self funding are NOT cheap and can work out hardly less for a few hours than 24/7 in an expensive nursing home where all is paid for-well almost
Whilst wandering a bit better for short time, once they start, there is no knowing if and when it will return due to unpredictability of the condition. When fleet of foot it is much harder. When wobbly, they haven't got the time to do much before they are heard, when carer keeps an ear open, but are at risk of falls instead and hypothermia!
 

flossielime

Registered User
May 8, 2014
201
Thanks everyone for you replies. Yes I realise doing the respite thing will be the only way I will find out if he likes it. i just wish it was all more straight forward!

I have just been around to his to find him asleep on the coach. I know it was only 9am - but so annoying after he has had the carer up half the night. I suggested getting up and going for the paper but he said he couldn't be bother and was too bored. This is his latest thing saying he is bored all the time.

The homecarers are costing as much as his place in a care home would be but I have to factor in that once he goes into care the money would have to pay for mums nursing too.

I have thought about equity release and looked into it quite thoroughly and my conclusion was the schemes were such a rip off I just could not as his attorney waste money in that way - if the disease was more predictable and I knew he may have X many years I may have considered the equity release but given the uncertainty I just dont feel I should go down that road. The other option I thought of is I buy his house from him (at market price) so he then has the money to fund his home care and I have the asset later but husband decided that could be a minefield in terms of proving it was not deprivation of assets later when he needs a care home.
 

Pete R

Registered User
Jul 26, 2014
2,038
Staffs
The other option I thought of is I buy his house from him (at market price) so he then has the money to fund his home care and I have the asset later but husband decided that could be a minefield in terms of proving it was not deprivation of assets later when he needs a care home.
Nothing wrong with doing that at all apart from you still having the cash flow problem and that your Mum will then become self funding.:eek:
 

Chemmy

Registered User
Nov 7, 2011
7,591
Yorkshire
If money wasn't an issue, what would you want to do?

If the answer is that they would both be in CHs, then you probably have to accept that their assets will have to be used for their care and when the money runs out, the LA will pick up the bills.

This is no different to those of us who have just one parent left who has moved into care - we're going through this currently with my MIL; the house has to be sold and the money used until it runs out. In your case, I appreciate that it is likely to run out quicker, but at the end of the day, it's your parents' money and they need the best possible care today, not savings for tomorrow.

Btw, my mum was a 'wanderer' and the approach of winter was the tipping point for me.
 

Oxy

Registered User
Jul 19, 2014
955
I thought you were only concerned money from assets was going to run out and one or other would be thrown out of private CH. That is only concern I would have.
Please don't worry about your own eventual gain. What matters is that he is safe and as contented as can possibly be with this condition.
 

flossielime

Registered User
May 8, 2014
201
thanks Chemmy- if money was no object I would keep my dad in his home as long as possible.

Oxy I am not concerned about my eventual gain at all - I am concerned about their money running out. My concern about buying their house of them at market value or equity release to give dad money to fund care at home is that it is complicating the situation. And when he does inevitably need a care or nursing home and he no longer own the house and the money has been spent on homecare the LA may refuse to fund any of the care home as he deprived himself of those assets paying for care at home that they say he does not need. Remember they have only assessed him as needing 7 hours of care a week or residential home.

I hope that makes sense - maybe i am over thinking it!
 

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