Start of incontinence?

Tender Face

Account Closed
Mar 14, 2006
5,379
NW England
Apologies for bringing this subject up again - I know it has been raised many times before BUT having done some searching can't quite find what I'm looking for ...... so before I go into full-flight-panic mode ...... wonder if anyone can advise?

Mum clearly had a problem with bladder incontinence last year - lots of evidence of trying to get to the loo but not getting there in time ..... seemed to have resolved itself .....after taking her off Diazepam which was 'zonking her' - no wonder she was 'slow to the loo' ...... Yesterday it was obvious when I went to do laundry that mum had wet the bed .... but of course - according to her she hadn't - when she realised what I had seen she claimed she had been sick (I understand the 'covering up' is not unusual!) I carefully resisted the urge to question why if one felt sick in the night and knew to get up, she would then go on and vomit over the bed in precisely the spot it would be appear that she had 'wet' ....

We are due a routine checkup by Urologist - (post bladder/ureter cancer several years ago although incontinence was never symptomatic), I have had concerns about mum's alcohol use and I am aware that mum suffered night-time enuresis as a child through to adolesence - which leads me to worry this could be psychologically driven ........ or am I deluding myself looking for any excuse other than we have hit another phase??????

With the benefit of wonderful hindsight and huge embarrassment on my part, I realise this is not the first time it has happened - just the first time I've 'found' and realised the evidence in situ ......

I use mattress protectors anyway for her (legacy from my dad's later days) ... other than that I can only think to keep a diary ... to present to someone at some point????? ...... and start adding 'check the bed' on list of 'checking fridge and bread bin' every day ....... but I can't 'police' her every night/morning - and she won't think of carers coming in .... if I approach CPN or GP I know she will just deny ......

Anyone any ideas? Is night-time incontinence any different to 'general incontinence' or is this just the start?

Love, Karen, x
 

jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
39,448
The first thing that occurs to me Karen, is with regard to her alcohol use. Anything that acts as a sedative would be inclined to make this sort of thing happen I would think. Which doesn't really help you I suppose: if she's drinking too much you're going to have other problems potentially more distastrous than occasional urinary incontinence, and I really don't know how you can stop her drinking when she can still get to the shops to buy the stuff. I really do understand why drinking can be a problem - if you feel muzzy all the time due to the dmentia, then muzzy because you've had a drink must be reassuring and, of course, while she might have stopped after one or two before dementia, she probably now has no recollection of exactly how many she has had.

Apart from making the bed as waterproof as possible, I'm not sure what else you can do. Although in children bed-wetting is sometimes due to psychological problems, I think it can also be due to sleeping too heavily, with the result that you don't wake up in response to the stimulous of an overfull bladder.

Not much help, I'm afraid.
 

Grannie G

Volunteer Moderator
Apr 3, 2006
71,827
Kent
Dear Karen,

If your mother is due a routine check up by the urologist, why don`t you write to him/her prior to the appointment, to state your concerns. This will avoid discussing incontinence in front of your mother but will enable you to have your say.

Love xx
 

BeckyJan

Registered User
Nov 28, 2005
18,972
Derbyshire
Hi Karen:

I have had problems with my hubby re 'not getting there in time' - and although due to medication he is slightly better overnight he still 'misses' and wets the special pants. I can cope with it!

In my mind 'getting there in time' and true incontinence are different. You can only clear this with the specialists.

Because it is a night only problem (?) I have a suspicion that the alcholol is slowing down the brain and the movement to the loo!!! But what can YOU do about that??!!! If that is the case you can only find all means to 'mop up' the problems as they occur - eg. special sheets, special pants and ALOT OF PATIENCE.

Once the urologist has checked everything out, have you thought about the incontinence nurse? - a delicate issue with your Mum, no doubt, but you may get over this with a few white lies.

One consolation - it may be bad with your Mum - but imagine it being your partner and sleeping with it!!!!

Best wishes Jan
 

Skye

Registered User
Aug 29, 2006
17,000
SW Scotland
Dear Karen

Night time incontinence usually comes before daytime. If someone is confused (and alcohol won't help) often they do wake, but by the time they realise why they are awake, it's too late.

It's a difficult one, if your mum is denying that it is happening. It's a good idea to write to the urologist in advance of her appointment in case there is a physical problem. Otherwise, you'd have to see your GP and ask for a referral to the continence advisor -- but that involves your mum's co-operation.

Would she wear pull-up pants at night? I found Boots very good, though there are others. The advantage of them is that if your mum does get up in time, she can easily cope with them. John wore them at night for a long time.

Kylie sheets are also good, and mean you don't have to change the whole bed.

Sorry you're faced with this just now, I hope you're feeling a bit better.

Love,
 

alfjess

Registered User
Jul 10, 2006
1,213
south lanarkshire
Hi

I think Dad does get up during the night for the toilet and then he doesn't know where the toilet is located, so wees in the corner, wastepaper bins, wardrobe, against the radiator, or wherever!

In the care home now, it is still the same, if he needs to wee, then he does, whether in the lounge, or the corrider or wherever!

I would like to know what care homes use for cleaning the carpet. One day when I go to my parent's room, it is smelling of urine. The next day there is no odour. Must be great cleaning stuff.

I know I struggled to get rid of the smell of urine, despite shampooing the carpets, at least 3 times a week

He is now on a toilet chart. The carers make sure that he is taken to to toilet at regular intervals and he doesn't wear pads. I doubt if he would keep them on.

He doesn't wet himself. Is he incontinent?

Alfjess
 

elaineo2

Registered User
Jul 6, 2007
945
leigh lancashire
Dear alfjess,its urine neutraliser that gets rid of the odour.brilliant stuff.i know the suppliers but they only do bulk orders.Surely there is somewher it can be bought.I bought urine odour neutraliser yesterday.of the dog kind.The not so little 11 month old pup pees for england.
 

Grannie G

Volunteer Moderator
Apr 3, 2006
71,827
Kent
alfjess said:
He doesn't wet himself. Is he incontinent?Alfjess
I wouldn`t call that incontinence, it sounds more like confusion. I would have said incontinence is lack of control caused by muscular weakness or neurological damage. If your father doesn`t wet himself, he must have control of his muscles. What he appears to have lost understanding of is where he aims.

That`s just my feeling, I`ve nothing concrete to back it up.
 

Skye

Registered User
Aug 29, 2006
17,000
SW Scotland
Hi alfjess

I don't think your dad's incontinent. It sounds as if he still has control of his bladder, but has forgotten where the appropriate place is. I don't think there is anything you can do about that, apart from regular toiletting, as they are doing.

How's your mum getting on? Are they still together?

Love,
 

elaineo2

Registered User
Jul 6, 2007
945
leigh lancashire
Dear karen,having read your post and replies,i (being a continence link nurse),would advise that you obtain an msu from mum and have it tested through the G.P.Incontinence occurs for many reasons,UTI'S being the main one.There may be some infection present that is causing this.I am trying to save you time really.Its the first route the G.P will take.Get in there first!love elainex
 

alfjess

Registered User
Jul 10, 2006
1,213
south lanarkshire
Skye said:
Hi alfjess

How's your mum getting on? Are they still together?

Love,
Hi Hazel

Thanks for asking about Mum.

Things aren't so good at the moment, for either of my parents. They are still together in the same room, but Mum is turning day into night, so therefore Dad is tired and also sleeping all day.

When the carers try to get him up and dressed he becomes aggresive, hitting one of the girls with a hairbrush. I had to sign a report to-day.

Mum is taking Diazapam now, but still very agitated until it kicks in, then she sleeps.

The Assit. Manageress at the home to-day said that no matter how hard they are trying. they cannot meet Mum and Dad's needs, so she has referred them back to the Psychiatrist and the CPN.

It is possible that Mum will be taken to the Psyche ward at the local hospital.
They tell me it is to get the medication sorted, but I am very upset to-night at the thought that this might happen.

I cannot imagine how this will help her agitation or anxiety. When Dad is out of her sight she really freaks, but as always I havve two to think of and Dad needs a rest.

What to do for the best??

Alfjess
 

Skye

Registered User
Aug 29, 2006
17,000
SW Scotland
Dear alfjess, I can understand how distressing this is for you. You have tried everything to keep your parents together, and now it seems to be going wrong. If your dad is also becoming aggressive, it's obviosly too much for him to cope with.

Would it not be possible for them both to transfer to the EMI unit, but have separate rooms? That way, there will be more staff, your dad will get his sleep, and they can still be together in the daytime, and until the

I understand you are upset at the thought of the psych ward, we hear so many horror stories about them, though I'm sure there are good ones. I'd push for the EMI placement in your shoes. Honestly, the care John is receiving is brilliant.

Love,
 

sue38

Registered User
Mar 6, 2007
10,849
52
Wigan, Lancs
Hi Karen,

I tend to agree that the alcohol is probably exacerbating any problem your mum has.

Does she go the shops and buy it herself? My mum has recently started to limit my Dad's alcohol intake by missing the G out of the G & T which he doesn't notice, and by giving him non-alcoholic wine. He did notice the wine tasted different 'yes it's a chardonnay' my mum glibly replied (she's learning ;) ).

But no help if your mum can buy the alcoholic stuff herself.
 

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