• All threads and posts regarding Coronavirus COVID-19 can now be found in our new area specifically for Coronavirus COVID-19 discussion.

    You can directly access this area >here<.

Social Services - Sectioning

Darrell.70

Registered User
Apr 5, 2016
19
Hi all

My mum was diagnosed with dementia last year and has got slowly worse we have recently got social services involved and now we have someone coming each morning but only for an assessment period my mum continues to go down hill and doesn't like living in a big house all on her own we have just been offered a small flat in a sheltered housing area but not sure if this is a good idea to move her as she is getting more confused where she is and doesn't recognise the house she's lived in for over 50 years and has just started to go out of the house at night luckily no harm has yet come to her. We have discussed care homes but she has said if we put her in a care home she will kill her self. My question is at what point will social services step in and take the decision away from us and section her has anyone got any advice we are now at our wits end thanks



Sent from my iPhone using Talking Point
 

Dothedealnow

Account Closed
Jun 4, 2016
97
SS will make a decision at the end of the assessment you mention that they are already doing.
Only a "crisis" will change thier process.
Keep a written record of all incidents, behaviors and concerns and submit weekly to SS.
In the meantime, demand action from SS stating that you are very concerned about your Mums safety and wellbeing.
 
Last edited:

Chuggalug

Registered User
Mar 24, 2014
8,007
Norfolk
Wow Darrell. Firstly, do SS know of your Mum's plight? If not, get stuck in and tell them first thing Monday.

Second, I don't know what carer services are like where you are. I don't want to scare you, but it took three crises before we finally got some wise people asking questions at my local hospital.

Who has offered you the sheltered housing? Is it a property you'll rent, or buy? I wouldn't throw that up. Suss it out and see what cover Mum'll get if she moves there. Is there a resident Warden? Can she call for help via some device in the flat if she needs to? I still live right back in the 80s where all that's concerned. I haven't a clue how these things are run, now. Get all the info you can on that score. Perhaps a friend or family member can help you gather the required information.

If she does end up going into full time care, the last thing that'll happen is her killing herself. There'll be too many people watching her, and, if you mention she's actually said those words, it'll be documented and she'll possibly end up with one to one care for a time.

Yup, it's all a bit scary movies time, but go with what you have and then decide with other close loved ones and your Mum as to what might work for her.

Are you self-funding? That's another thing to consider when ploughing through all your options.
 

Beate

Registered User
May 21, 2014
11,902
London
Social services won't section anyone. That's down to medical professionals if she gets violent or aggressive. SS prefer to keep people in their homes as long as possible because it's cheaper for them. In my opinion sheltered housing is rarely a good idea for people with dementia as they have to get accustomed to new surroundings but don't get the support a care home would give. She might not be able to stay there very long and then would have to move again. Best to get a proper care package into place which is what SS should be doing. If she is wandering at night, she's a vulnerable adult at risk for whom they have duty of care, and they should be giving a lot more support than they seem to be at the moment. Keep badgering them and don't forget that you are also by law entitled to a carers assessment. You could ask for day care and respite, and don't forget an OT referral to instal grab rails etc at her house, plus a referral to telecare for door alarms or trackers, especially in the light of her nocturnal wanderings, which you should try to monitor.

It's pointless to discuss care homes with your Mum, no one ever wants to go in one, but it's sometimes unavoidable. Have you got health & welfare LPA for her? Then you can decide where she lives once she loses capacity.
 

Shedrech

Volunteer Moderator
Dec 15, 2012
8,791
Yorkshire
Hi Darrell.70
Beate has succinctly summed it up for you - please don't wait for others to step in, best to set up as full a care package as you can now - if you have POA and your mum is self funding, you can go ahead and set up what you wish
I am guessing, though, that your mum will be funded by her LA - so push for this assessment to be completed (though it's not like any assessment I've heard of - what does the person do each morning?) and for carers to be coming in to support her
I too, from reading of other members' experiences, agree that a move to sheltered housing will at the most be a stepping stone so best avoided
Personally, I find this most worrying - you say she
doesn't recognise the house she's lived in for over 50 years and has just started to go out of the house at night luckily no harm has yet come to her.
For me, wandering at night and not knowing her home are signals that she needs supervision all day, every day
She may have said things about a care home - however there comes a time when her needs must outweigh her wants, and her needs must outweigh any 'promises' you have made in the past especially if you yourselves are unable to provide the care she needs in her own home
SS usually want to put in 4 care visits a day before considering a care home placement - so make sure you ask for the door alarms etc that Beate mentioned
best wishes to you all
 

Dothedealnow

Account Closed
Jun 4, 2016
97
If your Mum lives in a big House

.....all on her own, then unless she is given NHS continuing health care funding, your Mum will be funding her care. In effect this means that unless your Mums condition worsens, first your LA will take your Mums cash and then you'll be forced to sell the house if she goes into care. This is exactly what is happening to my Mother.

On the sectioning front this is to be avoided at all costs, the stress watching my mum bring frogmarched, screaming and shouting to a minivan was almost too much to bear. A couple of months on, she is a lot better and is off to a nursing home soon that she'll be paying for.

Keep reading these forums. Invaluable.
 

Beate

Registered User
May 21, 2014
11,902
London
I'm sorry but I can't agree with the last sweeping comment about sectioning being avoided at all costs which is purely based on your own personal experience. Sectioning isn't taken lightly, but if a person is a danger to others or themselves, it's in their best interest to receive proper medical evaluation, which hopefully will make them better due to tweaking of medication and/or finding a place that can meet their needs. And isn't that what happened to your Mum? You might have had a bad experience with the actual process, but not everyone has. In any case, it might never happen to Darrell's Mum.
 

hancmont

Registered User
Apr 25, 2016
38
Hi all

My mum was diagnosed with dementia last year and has got slowly worse we have recently got social services involved and now we have someone coming each morning but only for an assessment period my mum continues to go down hill and doesn't like living in a big house all on her own we have just been offered a small flat in a sheltered housing area but not sure if this is a good idea to move her as she is getting more confused where she is and doesn't recognise the house she's lived in for over 50 years and has just started to go out of the house at night luckily no harm has yet come to her. We have discussed care homes but she has said if we put her in a care home she will kill her self. My question is at what point will social services step in and take the decision away from us and section her has anyone got any advice we are now at our wits end thanks



Sent from my iPhone using Talking Point
I agree with Beate on many points.You can't wait for SS so step in.We had to be very proactive in contacting them and relentless in keeping contact with the SS case worker we were given. My mum was hospitalised after found wandering and becoming violent (it was partly due to a UTI) but it was only when she was in hospital and telling them that she could not be discharged because she had no care package in place and she lived alone, that SS stepped in. A MHA followed and found that she no longer had the capacity to make informed decisions about her care. It is vital that you get lPA for financial as well as health and welfare, otherwise if you have to sell her property to fund a care home, you will not be able to do so without. We luckily got LPA just before my mum was formally diagnosed with Alzheimers, as we knew she just wasn't right. After hospital she returned back to her own flat with carers coming in 3 times a day (this was against our wishes as we didn't think she'd be able to cope) and we were right. She is now in a care home. At the moment she says she wants to go home but when in her own flat has been saying that she wanted to move out into a care home! It gets to a point when YOU have to make the decision about what will inevitably be the best care and the safest place for your mum. Best of luckX
 

LYN T

Registered User
Aug 30, 2012
6,960
Brixham Devon
I'm sorry but I can't agree with the last sweeping comment about sectioning being avoided at all costs which is purely based on your own personal experience. Sectioning isn't taken lightly, but if a person is a danger to others or themselves, it's in their best interest to receive proper medical evaluation, which hopefully will make them better due to tweaking of medication and/or finding a place that can meet their needs. And isn't that what happened to your Mum? You might have had a bad experience with the actual process, but not everyone has. In any case, it might never happen to Darrell's Mum.
It never happened to Pete either and he was sectioned 5 times. :confused: As for sectioning being 'avoided at all costs' , that is only done in extreme cases, the outcome for Pete was good care. meds tweaked and his anxiety/violence much more under control. How can that be a bad thing.

Darrell, has anyone mentioned sectioning your Mum?
 

Pete R

Registered User
Jul 26, 2014
2,038
Staffs
.......first your LA will take your Mums cash and then you'll be forced to sell the house if she goes into care. This is exactly what is happening to my Mother.
You are not forced to sell the house once the cash is gone. You can enter into a Deferred Payment Agreement with the Local Authority which can be paid back from any means.

:)
 

Darrell.70

Registered User
Apr 5, 2016
19
Thanks everyone it's nice to know we are not alone.

The flat she has been offered is near to her sister who she spends a lot of time with going shopping and to bingo. Also the flat already has movement sensors and the SS are already set to put in the telecare. Mum has been focus on wanting a flat in this area for a while and can find her way from her current house to her sister plus as this is a council let she doesn't need to sell her current house so has to option of returning home if she does settle it does have a warden but only during the day

We have approached to topic of LPA but unfortunately mum is still very much in denial over her condition and refuses to discuss it fully so nothing in place which I know is not good.


We have seen a down turn in her over the last few weeks at first we would get calls on an evening asking where she lived before now I'm getting them throughout the day not sure how much more me and my brothers can take as I don't feel I get any break as she is now ringing several times every day we are hope that because she is so focused in wanting the flat that it may help failing that the care home has to be the next step

Thanks for everyone's advice I will start a dairy and also ring mums social worker tomorrow to keep her updated


Sent from my iPhone using Talking Point
 

Shedrech

Volunteer Moderator
Dec 15, 2012
8,791
Yorkshire
Hi Darrell,70
with what you say, maybe the flat is worth a try
any chance of telling your mum that everybody does POAs these days, in fact you are thinking you ought to do one yourself just in case, so why not look at getting them done together? - you can download the forms and send them off yourself, no need for a solicitor - they will definitely be worth getting (both for finance and for health & welfare) and have either another attorney jointly and severally and/or a named replacement
not being rotten but do you have to answer your mum's calls? will she be OK if you don't? and then maybe call her when it's convenient for you - any chance of putting something next to the phone which answers her question and which she'll see before she calls? though probably it's general reassurance she's after, fixed on this particular question
 

Canadian Joanne

Volunteer Moderator
Apr 8, 2005
16,318
66
Toronto, Canada
We have approached to topic of LPA but unfortunately mum is still very much in denial over her condition and refuses to discuss it fully so nothing in place which I know is not good.
Is it possible to approach the LPA from the point of people who don't have one may well have their affairs taken over by the government? I know it's rather mean to prey on paranoid thinking but sometimes needs must.
 

Ennett63

Registered User
May 11, 2015
10
Newcastle
Sectioning can have positive outcomes!

I am compelled to comment on Dothedeal's sad experience of sectioning which has upset me as i recall what happened to my husband who suffered from Vascular Dementia & was sectioned in May last year. We had reached a crisis through him experiencing hallucinations, disorientation re time, people & place & was aggressive towards me during night so i asked for help. I spoke to his CMN who said she would contact his consultant who arrived at our house 2 hours later to assess my husband's behaviour & take into account what I had experienced etc He decided sectioning was appropriate & stayed with us both until our GP arrived & a legal representative who then had a meeting in our house & agreed together that the situation was not safe for either of us. Later that day my husband was taken to a specialist hospital by 2 ambulance men whose communication skills were excellent. The outcome was my husband was closely monitored by a professional psychiatric team 24 hours a day for just over 3 weeks. He was prescribed anti depressents & pregabalin (although originally an epilepsy drug but with good outcomes for some to reduce anxiety) I was so relieved by the changes in his behaviour / mood swings etc and could cope with his disorientation / hallucinations so much better than before. So much so we were accompanied by our daughter & son in law for a wonderful holiday in our home Cyprus which was a miracle for us both & i have lovely photos to look back on. Sadly he was hospitalised in late September with a stroke from which he never recovered as he died in November. Please be open minded about sectioning a partner / parent see it as an opportunity for professional help without it my memories of last year would have all been negative.