Social Services – immoral, illegal or just plain useless?

24fan

Registered User
Nov 13, 2011
118
0
So, Social Services have sent us their formal request for payment of our contribution towards the direct payment monies we receive from them for my father to pay for luxuries such as his two days of daycare per week, his bath, transport to and from his bath and the carer who comes in to wash and shave him three mornings a week for forty-five minutes. The figure may as well may been simply plucked out the air as it is based on an incomplete, un-signed assessment which was partially completed by Daddy’s then Care Manager – all in the monies in and none of the expenses, how convenient?! – withdrawn from her so that it could be completed by us and never returned to them, and was based on the figures available at the time – when he was living in a nursing home. How any document like that could be deemed any proper basis for an assessment is beyond me but we now have that assessment and the charging clock will have started ticking before we can even register a protest at the immorality, even illegality of it.

The letter states that the payment period starts tomorrow so all of one day’s notice, over a weekend, to counteract it, and even states that they are aware that the figures won’t be accurate because a later form - given to us last month to complete – has not yet been returned to them and they are willing to revise their figures once they receive that! How very good of them – they know the figures are wildly inaccurate but that isn’t going to stop them charging using those incorrect figures – you couldn’t make it up!

My 8o year old mother has been floored and upset all day and I am beyond tired of the stress these people cause with their ridiculous demands, their harassment, and their relentless inefficiency all of which have to be borne because we are unfortunate enough to be on their radar because I was foolish enough to ask for a Carer’s Assessment. If only I hadn’t – I wish, with all my heart, that we had never had anything to do with these idiots.

On the plus side, we are having our Carer’s Break/Respite in a couple of weeks, finally having managed to get that arranged by having to go over the head of our semi-literate, inefficient creature of a Care Manager to get the monies which she finally managed to arrange to have paid to us so late that our ‘summer’ holiday was booked last week and we are having to take it in what is classed as autumn, given that summer officially ended on the August Bank Holiday on Monday. She, in the meantime, had her two weeks in the sun early in the summer and is on another two weeks holiday as we speak and we haven’t even had our one precious week yet, only our second week of respite since my father was diagnosed in 2008! I hate her and I hate them all. Our jobs as carers is hard enough in every minute of every day and all they seem to do is cause more and more stress about every single thing instead of helping us as is surely their job.

I don’t want to spend half of my time having to deal with such nonsense. All of my time should be spent looking after my Dad, that is why I’m his carer after all; to look after him, not to deal with petty nonsense and bureaucratic inefficiency.

Rant over and, of course, a guaranteed horrible night’s sleep ahead as I seethe and seethe about the unfairness of it all and how much time I will have to spend finding documents and writing letters to try and get this mess sorted out fairly, and beyond angry at them upsetting Mummy; this whole thing is hard enough on her without their constant ‘pokes’ – oh goody, more stress, just what I need!


Thomas Kempis:- "... Love feels no burden, thinks nothing of trouble, attempts what is above its strength, pleads no excuse of impossibility; for it thinks all things lawful for itself, and all things possible ...".
 
Last edited:

mowood

Registered User
Dec 27, 2009
380
0
West Yorkshire
My answer to your question is, 'All of the above'. This is based on my own experience of SS and their staff. I never came across one member of SS staff that I would have paid in buttons. For us, they made a difficult job almost impossible.

I feel and share your frustration.

Sending my best wishes to you and your mum.
 

Amy

Registered User
Jan 4, 2006
3,454
0
Not certain here what you are saying. You receive Direct Payments from Social Services to be spent on the care of your father, and now you are being asked to pay for the social care that they provide? Is that right?

The letter states that the payment period starts tomorrow so all of one day’s notice, over a weekend, to counteract it, and even states that they are aware that the figures won’t be accurate because a later form - given to us last month to complete – has not yet been returned to them and they are willing to revise their figures once they receive that!
Yes one days notice is short, but the rest sounds reasonable to me.

‘summer’ holiday was booked last week and we are having to take it in what is classed as autumn, given that summer officially ended on the August Bank Holiday on Monday.
Look on the bright side, she has saved you money cos the costs have come down now the children are back to school.;) Many choose to take their summer holidays now.

Hope your night wasn't as bad as anticipated.

Amy
 

KAnne

Account Closed
Apr 27, 2012
297
0
So, Social Services have sent us their formal request for payment of our contribution towards the direct payment monies we receive from them for my father to pay for luxuries such as his two days of daycare per week, his bath, transport to and from his bath and the carer who comes in to wash and shave him three mornings a week for forty-five minutes. The figure may as well may been simply plucked out the air as it is based on an incomplete, un-signed assessment which was partially completed by Daddy’s then Care Manager – all in the monies in and none of the expenses, how convenient?! – withdrawn from her so that it could be completed by us and never returned to them, and was based on the figures available at the time – when he was living in a nursing home. How any document like that could be deemed any proper basis for an assessment is beyond me but we now have that assessment and the charging clock will have started ticking before we can even register a protest at the immorality, even illegality of it.

The letter states that the payment period starts tomorrow so all of one day’s notice, over a weekend, to counteract it, and even states that they are aware that the figures won’t be accurate because a later form - given to us last month to complete – has not yet been returned to them and they are willing to revise their figures once they receive that! How very good of them – they know the figures are wildly inaccurate but that isn’t going to stop them charging using those incorrect figures – you couldn’t make it up!

My 8o year old mother has been floored and upset all day and I am beyond tired of the stress these people cause with their ridiculous demands, their harassment, and their relentless inefficiency all of which have to be borne because we are unfortunate enough to be on their radar because I was foolish enough to ask for a Carer’s Assessment. If only I hadn’t – I wish, with all my heart, that we had never had anything to do with these idiots.

On the plus side, we are having our Carer’s Break/Respite in a couple of weeks, finally having managed to get that arranged by having to go over the head of our semi-literate, inefficient creature of a Care Manager to get the monies which she finally managed to arrange to have paid to us so late that our ‘summer’ holiday was booked last week and we are having to take it in what is classed as autumn, given that summer officially ended on the August Bank Holiday on Monday. She, in the meantime, had her two weeks in the sun early in the summer and is on another two weeks holiday as we speak and we haven’t even had our one precious week yet, only our second week of respite since my father was diagnosed in 2008! I hate her and I hate them all. Our jobs as carers is hard enough in every minute of every day and all they seem to do is cause more and more stress about every single thing instead of helping us as is surely their job.

I don’t want to spend half of my time having to deal with such nonsense. All of my time should be spent looking after my Dad, that is why I’m his carer after all; to look after him, not to deal with petty nonsense and bureaucratic inefficiency.

Rant over and, of course, a guaranteed horrible night’s sleep ahead as I seethe and seethe about the unfairness of it all and how much time I will have to spend finding documents and writing letters to try and get this mess sorted out fairly, and beyond angry at them upsetting Mummy; this whole thing is hard enough on her without their constant ‘pokes’ – oh goody, more stress, just what I need!


Thomas Kempis:- "... Love feels no burden, thinks nothing of trouble, attempts what is above its strength, pleads no excuse of impossibility; for it thinks all things lawful for itself, and all things possible ...".

I can't fully grasp this post but once the dementia patients income is assessed by the SS, a contribution to the Direct Payment is always required. My mum pays in the area of £620 per month and the council pay £450 ish - so it usually goes like this, needs assessed by social worker, budget decided, contribution assessed and requested, care agency paid by you

Could you make your exact problem a little bit clearer fan?:confused::)
 
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jeany123

Registered User
Mar 24, 2012
19,035
0
73
Durham
Can you wait until it is sorted out before you pay, it would save a lot of bother, I should add that although SS and SW have been slow sometimes, they have been very good with us,
 
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Saffie

Registered User
Mar 26, 2011
22,516
0
Near Southampton
I don't want to sound unsympathetic but is there any reason why you haven't returned the form? Surely this would then have set the record straight?

As far as I am aware from my own experience, expences are not considered in a person's financial assessent, it is an assessment to establish what capital a person has to see if they qualify for SS assistance.
 

Contrary Mary

Registered User
Jun 11, 2010
1,895
0
68
Greater London
Perhaps, like Saffie (and me I have to say), SS are wondering why you have not returned the later form, and in the absence of any other info are having to use a previous assessment. It is difficult to tell just from your written post but it does strike me that you should complete the form and then there should be a procedure whereby you can apply to have all/some of the charges waived due to your circumstances. The only expenses I remember us being asked about were Council Tax, rent or mortgage. You may have some really legitimate expenses - for example, we had to buy incontinence pads as the ones supplied were totally useless at night. But, as I say this should form part of an appeal, not an assessment as far as I know.
 

24fan

Registered User
Nov 13, 2011
118
0
My need was to vent. SS are just demanding that we suddenly come up with almost £100 a week based on pretty much nothing. How can the form be valid when there is no personal information on it, not even my father's name and address as the first four pages are not filled in at all, the only figures are income which expenses for my father need to be offset against - and they are substantial and accepted as there are eighteen boxes for these expenses to be noted and explained - the legal declaration is not signed, no proof documents have been submitted and the form was based on the situation some three months before my father came home from the NH he was recuperating in. How then can this form be used as the basis for anything let alone a charge starting a year and a half later?

We simply haven't got the money to pay them. When he had been home for a while, I submitted a spreadsheet showing the six months before and since his return and we had and have a substantial deficit every month as we are knee deep in credit card debt which SS simply choose not to take into account - maybe I should try that with the credit card companies and see how far we get; “oh, I’m sorry, we can’t pay you this month as we are simply following the lead of Social Services and not taking you into account!”, I wonder how far I’d get with that.

I realise that Daddy needs the daycare and I certainly need the break if affords me but we will simply have to go back to the situation we were in for the first six months after he came home where, as we couldn’t pay, we had no daycare and I had no respite whatsoever.

With regard to the break; the whole idea was to go when it was warm as my father has a heart condition and the resulting poor circulation means that he is always cold. He is bundled up in a sweater and jacket on the hottest summer days so going to the coast now is going to be like winter to him. Also, given the damage to my back and shoulder from moving someone taller and heavier than me for so long, I have been advised to swim to alleviate the pain. I never get the time to do that at home but thought I could on holiday but, by the time we were able to book, dovetailing the hotel with the nursing home my father will be staying in, all I could get was a hotel with an outdoor pool – not exactly what I wanted or needed. Daddy’s Care Manager had her fortnight in the sun with her family and is on another two weeks holiday now, we would just have liked our one week to have actually been in the warmth of the summer but she was too inefficient, or spiteful, to process the payments so that we could.

I will get the latest financial assessment form accurately filled in and returned but my time, all my time, should be spent looking after my father not at the whim of whatever SS want to drop on me this week. I have to take my father out every day for some safe exercise to ensure he retains as much of his mobility as possible but, after pushing him there and back in the wheelchair, I am shattered by the time he has gone to bed and not really up to doing forms of such importance and finding documents. I am an only child so there is just me, looking after both parents and doing everything - I can only manage so much.

I just needed to vent - now I'm rather sorry I bothered.
 

Contrary Mary

Registered User
Jun 11, 2010
1,895
0
68
Greater London
I'm sorry, I realise your frustration but we are trying to find a way to help you around this.

the legal declaration is not signed
and not properly filled in, you say.

This is the bit that has struck me as may help. Maybe another tack is to question the validity of the financial assessment and whether this is good enough for SS to legally raise a charge.

As regards things like credit card debts, I would say that SS may well say they are not important (other than to you, of course). I remember this sort of thing coming up when I worked in local government, and this sort of thing happened with the payment of Council Tax.

It seems to me,therefore, that there are various legal issues here and perhaps to contact the Citizens Advice Bureau, for example, may help.
 

Christin

Registered User
Jun 29, 2009
5,038
0
Somerset
Hello 24fan, I can see that this is frustrating for you but just wonder if you can request a finance officer to visit you at home.

We didn't have any direct payments, so I can't comment on them, but we did have a visit from a finance officer when my FIL moved into a nursing home. I have to say she was brilliant, knowledgeable, and checked that my FIL was receiving all the benefits to which he was entitled.

Hope you get all this sorted very soon. I do think that carer's should have an assessment for their own needs, and maybe a visit could be listed as a need for you now.

Best wishes to you all. x
 

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