Soc Serv / Nursing Homes...

Discussion in 'Legal and financial issues' started by Tired_MariaUK, May 6, 2008.

  1. Tired_MariaUK

    Tired_MariaUK Registered User

    May 5, 2008
    18
    England
    My 87 year old MIL lives with us. It's getting near that point when we think we will no longer be capeable of looking after her in our home. We have made a referral to SS for a care manager. We want to talk to SS about the possibility of putting her in a nursing home. I know MIL doesn't have enough savings to pay for nursing home. She has under £8,000 in savings and she no longer has her own house. While we wait to hear from SS about a new Care Manager...is there anyone here who might know what SS would do in this case? We live in England.
     
  2. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,439
    Hi Maria

    As you can imagine this can be fairly complex, but I'll try to lay out the baseline for you. Firstly. all local authorities (LA) need to refer to CRAG (Charging for Residential Accommodation Guide) which is available here http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publication...tions/PublicationsPolicyAndGuidance/DH_073650

    For your situation as you've outlined it, your MIL will (assuming the LA agree that she needs some form of residential care) be paid for by your LA - her savings are below the threshold. Her pension(s) will be clawed back and she will be left with £20 per week personal allowance. If she's receiving attendance allowance that will stop. However, all LA's have a basic amount that they pay to homes and depending on where you are, you may find that a) there are no homes in the immediate area that will accept your MIL for this amount or b) the ones that will aren't places you would find acceptable. Note: many homes will quote you as a private individual one price, but accept LA funded clients for a lot less, so don't assume that any price quoted is necessarily the final rate. Anyway, you as family members have the option to pay a top up, but obviously that's going to depend on your personal circumstances.

    One thing that concerns me from what you have said: your MIL no longer has her own house. If by this you mean she has owned property in the past, has sold it, but no longer has the funds from that sale, you may have issues with the LA about intentional deprivation of capital. It's all about intent, and to a lesser extent time. If she owned a house, sold it with no expectation that she would need care in the future that's fair enough. However if the money was spent in the knowledge that care would be needed in the future then here would be problems. There is no set time-frame when this does not need to be considered, although, obviously the longer ago, the less likely it is to be an issue. Be aware though: it's not unheard of for the LA to have no idea what the rules actually say. I don't think it's a cynical attempt to circumvent the guidelines, but more that no one calls them on it.

    P.S. I'm moving this message to the main support forum where you may get more input
     
  3. Tired_MariaUK

    Tired_MariaUK Registered User

    May 5, 2008
    18
    England
    My in-laws never owned their own home. My FIL made a career of being a church keeper and they lived in flats within the church or parsonages. When they moved to this area...FIL was retired and they were starting to have health problems so were moved into a Council Flat. Then when MIL started showing signs of no longer being able to cope on her own...she moved in with us.
     
  4. lizzie2596

    lizzie2596 Registered User

    Jul 3, 2007
    91
    Hi Maria

    I went through this process last summer with my Mum. She was living with me and had savings way below the threshold. Once I had spoken to the CPN & Social Worker and they both agreed that I could not give Mum the level of care that she needed any more things happened fairly smoothly, although I think I was very lucky. Mum went into emergency respite to begin with and a few days before that ran out and she was going to have to come home again a permanent place came up and the social worker made a case for Mum to be put top of the waiting list. (She had had a bad fall in the respite home and her face was a real mess, which added to the urgency of her case).
    The home is further away that I had initially hoped but I went and had a look and it seemed nice. I also looked up their CSCI inspection reports, which were all positive.
    The social worker advised me strongly to take the place so that Mum was "in the system" (for want of a better phrase). I could always put her on the waiting list for other homes in case it didn't work out. I did this but haven't needed to move Mum.
    The bed that Mum has is one of the places that the council bulk funds from a company that runs several homes around the county. Therefore there is no top up to pay. I get a bill every month, which I pay with Mum's pension. She is left with just over £20 per week.
    To get the funding agreed I had an appointment at the local Shire Hall. I took the usual evidence of Mum's pension payments, savings and the power of attorney. I received notification through the post within a couple of weeks that her funding had been agreed.
    It may well be that things may work slightly differently wherever you are but I think all councils have the same level of responsibility for providing care.
    I hope this has helped.

    Good luck

    Liz.
     
  5. Tired_MariaUK

    Tired_MariaUK Registered User

    May 5, 2008
    18
    England
    My husband does not have Power of Attorney. Could this be a problem? I now wish he would have had it done while MIL was still thinking clear enough to make her own decisions.
     
  6. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,439
    Maria: I don't think it will make a whole lot of difference. LPA/EPA while very useful really comes in it's own when there are substantial assets. I'm not saying it doesn't make with the lives of people who are caring for those have fewer assets much easier because it does, but making the assumption that most of your MIL's income is from the state, the pension service does have systems it place to handle finances without a power of attorney being in existence: the appointee system. Just to add: the the future, now that there are health LPA's available this might become more important. However, most of us are dealing with the old EPAs where only finances were covered.
     
  7. Tired_MariaUK

    Tired_MariaUK Registered User

    May 5, 2008
    18
    England
    Thank you for all the info. I'm sorry I don't know what the LPA/EPA means and all the other abbreviations:confused:.
     
  8. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    69,569
    Kent
    #8 Grannie G, May 8, 2008
    Last edited: May 8, 2008
  9. Tired_MariaUK

    Tired_MariaUK Registered User

    May 5, 2008
    18
    England
    Ah many thanks!:)
     

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