1. Expert Q&A: Protecting a person with dementia from financial abuse - Weds 26 June, 3:30-4:30 pm

    Financial abuse can have serious consequences for a person with dementia. Find out how to protect a person with dementia from financial abuse.

    Sam, our Knowledge Officer (Legal and Welfare Rights) is our expert on this topic. She will be here to answer your questions on Wednesday 26 June between 3:30 - 4:30 pm.

    You can either post questions >here< or email them to us at talkingpoint@alzheimers.org.uk and we'll answer as many as we can on the day.

  1. jude1950

    jude1950 Registered User

    Mar 23, 2006
    182
    Lincolnshire
    What a Week we have had . You may remember I posted recently about the sudden deterioration in Jim's dementia ...things took a dramatic turn this week .
    Since being diagnosed with AD he has become very possessive and objects to me doing anything that is not for him. Particularly he doesn't like me spending any time on my computer.
    On Monday he was ranting and raving about me doing some work for my son's business I had to get some figures ready for the Accountant and had explained this to Jim over the week end I chose to do it Monday as there was Cricket on TV and the cleaning lady was also here for three hours that day and Jim will chat to her, so I knew he would have other things to occupy him.
    During the morning I was also on the telephone to my Son and to the Accountant .
    Also the telephone rang with a call from my eldest daughter asking how we both were...I have a good relationship with my children and since Jim's Alzheimer's I do not get to see them very much but we keep in touch via the telephone.
    Jim was getting very agitated and as soon as the cleaner left he started in one of his rants...I might add that prior to AD he never became agitated at all.
    I tried all the usual things to distract him changing the subject ignoring the insults etc. eventually I persuaded him that we should go and visit his daughter who lives in the same village as we do.
    WE called to see her and helped her to assemble some new furniture she had just bought ..in all we were there about 2 hours whilst we were there Jim seemed to have got over his outburst and was quite calm and pleasant.
    When we got home.as soon as we got into the house he turned towards me with such a viscious look on his face and said "don't do me any tea I am not Hungry" and stormed off into the lounge.
    I carried on as normal and we both watched the evening news on TV. I must have dozed off for a second as the next thing was the telephone rang and woke me up ..it was my son ..thanking me for getting the figures done for him earlier...Jim was not in the room when I checked where he was asleep in the conservatory.
    I then walked through to wher my computer is and checked my emails all the time I am still on the phone to my son.
    The next thing I know Jim appeared at the door and threw a photograph frame with a picture of me and him together into the room ranting again !! I came off the phone to my son...my children are used to phone calls ending abruptly as it often happens Jim will throw a tantrum when I am talking to them.
    I followed him back into the lounge and he was ranting and really agitated he wanted a divorce he was taking all the money out of the bank and going away I was not to use his car (It is my car BTW) I tried to divert his attention and would not argue with him this only seemed to agrivate him more he became more agitated saying really viscious things about my children still demanding that he wanted a divorce I said "fine Jim what ever you want "..then he got even more agressive the upshot was ....sorry this is such a saga...that He was shaking his fist coming towards me shouting he wanted me out I rang my youngest daughter and said I needed her to come across and get me out as I thought I was in physical danger I then went into my bedroom to get out of his way I had to barricade myself in and he was shouting and banging and trying to force his way in My neighbours and good friends of us both had to come over. To cut a very long story short ..since then the CPN has become involved and it has been agreed that I need some respite and Jim will go to day care for two days a week.
    He has always refused this but has had to accept this arrangement or the alternative is me leaving. I have rheumatoid Arthritis Angina and high blood pressure .
    Things are better but still not good Because of my health issues I get tired very easily I am also on medication that makes me drowsy I am so so tired if I try to take a nap Jim shouts at me and wakes me up saying I am stealing his time I should be awake talking to him..he will also wake me up in the early hours of the morning ( He thinks it is much later) by coming into my bedroom and shouting usually something on the lines of get up you are wasting my life or stealing his time.
    He is now saying he is not going to the Day centre and there is nothing wrong with him he seems ok during the day it seems to be around tea time he starts again..nothing as bad as the first outburst on Monday but the underlying aggression is there he walked out of the house on thursday because I was falling asleep in the chair..pointedly picked up his wallet and muttered something about walking down to the riverside.....to be quite honest I was so exhausted I didn't care where he was going I was just too tired to argue..he came back about half an hour later and said aggressively that he wanted my computer and any bookwork out of his house !! again I just agreed and said I would sort it out the next day. Friday Tea Time I was sitting in the chair and had nodded off to sleep when he shouted so loud and said "Judith this has to stop why are you asleep!!)
    I am afraid I just cried in fact I sobbed and asked him to please let me rest his reaction is not that it is wrong to wake me like this but I am wrong for getting upset. After this there followed an hour of argument over going to theDay centre..in the end I have tried to compromise by saying that it would be ok to go for one day instead of two... He is just constantly on at me wearing me down.
    I dare not tell my children of this as they will want me to leave him so I have come to my friends here on talking point . All I need is time to rest and sleep I now understand how sleep depravation is used as a method of torture. Thankyou for bearing with me to the end of this ramble I just wondered if anyone had any suggestions on how to cope better.

    thank you

    Judith
     
  2. plastic scouser

    plastic scouser Registered User

    Judith - so sorry to hear that things are so bad.

    What you've written mirrors so closely my Mum's experiences with Dad. He too went from being mild mannered to threatening Mum with his fists and trying to break into the bedroom when she went there for sanctuary.

    Hard as it is to admit, you MUST look after number one. Your children would quite rightly be horrified if they knew your emotional state. Again, I went through this with my Mum and although it was hard to accept, I knew that in the end Dad would need to go into care if Mum was to avoid being run into the ground by Dad and his illness.

    You say that your husband goes to a day centre - have you thought about respite care - from the sounds of it, you really need to get some sort of break from the strain of caring for your husband?

    Please don't ignore your children either - by bottling up your feelings you're probably only making your own health worse. You need to involve your children so that they know the truth of the situation sooner rather than later - it does no good protecting them from the pain and the pressure - they can only help you....

    I hope you manage to get some help - for your own sake - remember that we're always here for you.
     
  3. Cate

    Cate Registered User

    Jul 2, 2006
    1,370
    Newport, Gwent
    Oh Judith what a dreadful time you are having.

    I understand you want to spare your children the worry and the heartache you are going through, but you must see, I don’t think you have any choice but to tell them. You desperately need their support. It may well work for a while if hubby knows that you have the support of your family, he may temper his aggression, that just depends if he remembers any family discussions with him!!

    You know in your heart of hearts this isn’t going to get any better.

    I totally agree with you sleep deprivation is probably one of the worst kinds of torture, I went through it with mum.

    I would most certainly call in the CPN again, and tell her that you have reached the end of your tether. By all means, give the Day Centre a trial, but if he won’t go, I think you should seriously start to consider alternatives.

    Has there been any discussions about medication?

    Having to lock yourself away in a bedroom for fear of physical violence is no way to live. Yes of course it’s the illness, no question about that, but violence is violence. What if he totally loses control and you cannot get help? You owe it to yourself to ensure that you are safe.

    Take care.
    Cate
     
  4. Skye

    Skye Registered User

    Aug 29, 2006
    17,000
    SW Scotland
    Dear Judith, you sound absolutely exhausted. You can't go on like this, or you'll break down.

    Plastic scouser has said exactly what I would have said, so I won't repeat it.

    But please consider respite care. If things go on in this way Jim is going to end up in care anyway. A couple of weeks respite might make it possible for you to carry on a bit longer.

    Please take care of yourself, and keep in touch. We do care about you.

    Love,
     
  5. lizzie2596

    lizzie2596 Registered User

    Jul 3, 2007
    91
    Hi Judith

    If anyone needs a break and a rest it is you. I know from personal experience that once you have reached the end of your endurance it is harder and harder to carry on, even when things settle down a little now and then.

    It is good that day care has been offered - stick to the two days no matter what as you need all the time you can get. Have you asked about a respite break or has it been suggested? This would be ideal to break the cycle of hostility and give you time to really rest and recover. It is always a daunting step the first time but you need it so badly. Remember, if you try to carry on, your health will suffer more, you will become too ill to care for your husband and he will have to go into emergency respite care anyway. Better to arrange it before it becomes an emergency measure.

    Please tell your children, they would hate for you to be suffering in silence without giving them the chance to help and support you through this difficult time.

    Liz x
     
  6. sue38

    sue38 Registered User

    Mar 6, 2007
    10,856
    Wigan, Lancs
    Hi Judith,

    I'm sorry you're going through such a difficult time. Your husband's behaviour is very similar to my Dad's behaviour towards my Mum. He takes his anger out on her, shouting at her for not getting up when he gets up, which can be 2.30 in the morning, and she has sometimes felt in physical danger. The difference is my Dad was never exactly what you would call 'mild-mannered'.

    When things get out of hand she calls me or my sister to come to the house. I will sit and talk to my Dad and let him tell me what a dreadful woman my Mum is (making sure she is out of the room) and try to reassure him that we love and value him and so does my Mum- although he doesn't believe me, this does help to calm him down. He threatens to leave and 'go home', but the fact is he would be lost without my Mum. I also speak firmly to him and tell him that any physcial attack on my Mum would be totally unacceptable. He has never actually been physical, but does shake his fists which is pretty scary as he is still a big man.

    My Mum still works every day (and my Dad is generally OK to be left in the house) so she gets a break from him (and him from her).

    It sounds as though you are desperately in need of a break. Is there someone who could talk to your husband, his daughter perhaps? You do need to tell your children and his children what is going on as you cannot cope with this alone.

    Is your husband on any medication? My Dad is only on Ebixa but I know there are drugs which may help with his agitation. This is something we may look at if we feel we are not coping.

    Take care
     
  7. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    68,722
    Kent
    Dear Judith,

    It is time to call a halt, when you are faced with this type of aggressive behaviour. I`m afraid the loyalty you feel to your husband is now misplaced. Everyone close to you needs to know what you`re having to contend with and any professionals from the services too.

    Your husband is beyond logical discussion and beyond reasoning. I`m sorry if I offend you by speaking too blunly, but if I had to tolerate half your stress, I`d be screaming for help.

    I know it`s the illness, but you have to draw the line somewhere. How on earth can you cope with this situation any longer.

    Please be frank with all your family and let them help you. And ask the services what help they can provide too. This situation is too serious for you to cope alone.

    Take care. Please get help.

    Love xx
     
  8. Nebiroth

    Nebiroth Registered User

    Aug 20, 2006
    3,518
    #8 Nebiroth, Aug 4, 2007
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2007
    I agree with Grannie G on this one. Your love for and loyalty towards your husband are worthy of the highest admiration, but at some point, a line must be drawn. You are obviously close to total exhaustion and are risking a breakdown in your own health. I think the time has come to admit that you cannot cope - not without lots more support at least and possibly a change in circumstances. You must ask yourself what would happen if you had a breakdown and had to gointo hospital yourself?

    Is your husband on any form of medication for his agression and agitation? When was he last assessed - indeed, when were you last assessed?

    It is hard, but I have always had the firm opinion that the threat or use of physical abuse is abolutely unacceptable under any circumstances whatsover.

    We may say "it is just the illness" (which is true), but in my opinion, the source does not matter...only the fact.

    Again as Grannie G has said your husband is not open to rationality, reason or argument. In some ways he is like a child who has tantrums - a lifetime of control has been lost - , but in a man's body, which is a very different prospect.

    I was utterly horrified to hear that my dad had pushed mum out of bed one night because she didn't get out of bed fast enough to see to one of his numerous "complaints". I only found out about it when the CPN did the assessment and mum had to admit "yes" when asked if dad had ever hit her. If only I had known I would have reported it to the CPN long before then and we would have started on the agression medication much earlier.

    It is a big step starting on one of the neuroleptic type drugs which are commonly used for agression, and there are scare stories about them, but in our case, I simply said the risk was acceptable in the face of the alternative.

    We were told that it is not unusual for people with dementia to retain some measure of "social control" when in the company of strangers or others, but to lose it all when alone with their closest ones or carers. It is simply the remnants of "socialisation" that we all learn in life but which people with dementia gradually forget as they regress. This doesn;t make it acceptable of course.
     
  9. jude1950

    jude1950 Registered User

    Mar 23, 2006
    182
    Lincolnshire
    Thank you all for your support .
    Much of what you say I know is true..its just that old thing of the Guilt Monster raising its ugly head...I am usually able to keep on top of everything .I feel that I have failed to help Jim with this illness and wonder if I am pushing him into a care situation too soon. He does have very lucid moments and when in the company of others is a real charmer . After our friends and family had to come to my aid on Monday evening he was Mr charm with them all still agressive towards me though I stayed over at my neighbours house and his daughter slept here. I had to do this because I know when" Mr Nasty" has taken over Jim and he was still in the same frame of mind . I went back the next morning and called the CPN she was very good and came out of the clinic she was taking straight away and came to see us.
    At first he would not accept that he had been in a rage he denied trying to break down my bedroom door to get at me denied throwing the photo frame denied shouting but my neighbours had witnesseed this and my children had heard him in the background whilst I was on the Phone. He is so plausible ....thankfully the CPN could see through this. She did have a word with the consultant who said that before going down the route of drugs for his aggression we would try the day care way and see if that relieved the frustration Jim was feeling.
    We have had a good day so far ... been to the shops and had a spot of lunch out .
    I shall see how it goes for the rest of the weekend if there are any further outbursts I shall get in touch with the CPN on Monday. The Consultant suggested I keep a diary of these incidents so we can see if there is a pattern or wether medication is the next thing to try the trouble being of course that Jim does not thing he has any form of dementia the CPN has suggested there may be vascular dementia and AD as Jim has had a stroke at some time ..it was shown on a scan he had done we shall see thankyou all once again for listening to me ...its a great help.

    Judith
     
  10. Skye

    Skye Registered User

    Aug 29, 2006
    17,000
    SW Scotland
  11. Kathleen

    Kathleen Registered User

    Mar 12, 2005
    639
    West Sussex

    It might, of course, be that he has no knowledge of having done any of those things..............he simply can't remember doing them.

    My Mum occasionaly said awful things to people and when we told her what she had said, she was horrified and would apologise straight away.

    I also think you need to be absolutely straight with your children, they must be imagining all sorts of things now, the truth might be less scary.

    It seems that you need a break from each other and respite will give you time to rest and decide where to go from here.

    You are not superwoman, go easy on yourself.

    Take care.

    Kathleen
     
  12. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    68,722
    Kent
    #12 Grannie G, Aug 4, 2007
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2007
    I will second Kathleen`s comments.

    When my husband has what I call one of his lapses, he often asks afterwards if he was violent or if he said anything hurtful.
    He has absolutely no recollection of the entire episode.
     
  13. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    10,824
    london
    #13 Margarita, Aug 4, 2007
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2007
    I hope you don't mind , but i was looking at your past post .

    what I can't believe is when your Consultant say
    whole year gone buy and no medication , only when thing are getting worse now his telling you to do a dairy.

    No wonder your so tried

    My mother was told she had AZ , even thought Consultant said that she got it because of years not taking her medication for diabetic , lack of oxygen to the brain.

    My mother also would not admit that they was anything wrong with her .

    i was living alone with my mother in gibraltar , showing those symptoms your taking about , like your saying agitated , not liking me using phone computer , me sleeping,

    seem to behavior better when children where around , I Never told my children half
    the story what it was like with alone with mum , till they saw it for themselves, because we where all living together in UK by that time [ as I could not do it along anymore ] and as soon as one of the children was around , she was not so viably abusive to me
    I Do hope you open up more to your children , so they can give you more breaks like you say ,
    just tell them the truth how bad he can get , that you want to avoided for a long as posable full time care home , but you need they help in supporting you , also emotional. i know how they hate to see us upset , but that the reality of caring for someone with AZ we need support so we can get breaks and if your husband won't go to day-center your need your children support more so

    and it took a long time for my mother to accept day-center , but she went at the end.

    lets hope he does not get paranoid , when your doing the diary , just say its work for your son's business.

    good luck and push for medication , Consultant know AZ or dementia does not get better , they not living in your shoes but you are .
     
  14. Nebiroth

    Nebiroth Registered User

    Aug 20, 2006
    3,518
    Unfortunately it may well be true that your husband has no recollection of these things. On the other hand, he may have some recollection, but be in denial - rejecting a truth that is too much to bear.

    It is also the case that people with dementia can exhibit a talent for "pulling themselves together" for a short performance in front of a stranger. It's the remnant of that social control and inhibition working. Thankfuly, most professionals have the experience to see right through this, or will ask questions etc that break through the facade of normality.

    Again, people with dementia (sorry for generalising so much) have very little insight into their own conditions. You hear it so often, that they believe there is nothing wrong with them...it's everyone and everything around them that's wrong of course.

    I too find it a little shocking that the consultant has only suggested "keeping a diary" after the sort of behaviors you describe. Isn't what you've described enough?! All very well for him/her, she/he does not have to go through this.
     
  15. jude1950

    jude1950 Registered User

    Mar 23, 2006
    182
    Lincolnshire
    Thanks Margarita.
    I would point out in case I have not explained before That this is my second marriage and the children I refer to are my three and Jim is their step father he has three children of his own but they are not as close a Family as we are I think this is where some of Jim's resentment comes from. This is why I have to be careful what I tell my own three children they are already concerned about me because of my own illness's and would want me to leave Jim or put him into a care home rather than see me get any worse.
    The day is still going OK but we are approaching the time when Jim usually starts to get agitated ...fingers crossed that tonight passes without incident.

    Judith
     
  16. Kathleen

    Kathleen Registered User

    Mar 12, 2005
    639
    West Sussex

    I still think you need to talk to them and at the same time tell them he is your husband and you love him and want to do your best by him.

    Do his own children know all the facts by the way?

    It may not be easy, but I would think it's best that they know about his present condition.

    Kathleen
    xx
     
  17. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    10,824
    london
    #17 Margarita, Aug 4, 2007
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2007
    Oic , thank you for explaining .

    I can see they, your point of view , but at the end of day they have to respect your point of view in how you want to care for your husband even we your ill heath and support you at the end of the day its your life , your in control . but I understand they may have underlaying issue if his not they real father if you don't mind me saying . I Do hope I Have not offended you in what I have said .

    my finger are also cross for you xx
     
  18. jude1950

    jude1950 Registered User

    Mar 23, 2006
    182
    Lincolnshire
    Hi Margarita.
    You do not upset me at all on the contrary I find your posts most helpful.
    The day has ended on a good note no agression thank goodness... just going to bed now ..tomorrow is another day I hope it is as good as today .
    regards
    Judith
     
  19. gill@anchorage5

    gill@anchorage5 Registered User

    Apr 29, 2007
    211
    Southampton
    Support

    Good Morning Judith

    Hope you had a more peaceful night.

    I know that I am lucky that I am currently able to give the necessary support to my Mum & Dad. Dad is now in the advanced stages of AZ & I'm currently taking a career break to assist.

    I met up with a friend yesterday who I have not seen for some time & she lost her Mum last year. One part of the conversation sticks in my mind when she said "if only we'd known how much Dad was having to cope with. He kept it all to himself & tried to deal with everything himself. If only he'd told us what they were going through, we would have helped out & supported them more, but we just didn't know and now we feel so guilty"

    I'm sure that your family would wish to support you & hope that you will be able to talk to them about the challenges you are facing.

    Thinking of you

    Take care

    Gill x
     
  20. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    68,722
    Kent
    #20 Grannie G, Aug 5, 2007
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2007
    Hello Jude,

    I hope your husband didn`t get too agitated last evening. This is the time my husband gets agitated too. It can be any time between 5 and 7pm, and he tells me his head feels awful.
    He is not as aggressive as your husband, he tends to get very tired. He is getting used to it now and knows it will pass. Even so, he has no recollection of it later.

    Jude,
    This is one of the problems with families. My own sister says she is more worried for me than for my husband and has suggested I start looking for a care home.
    She is speaking from her own point of view, not mine and I have told her this type of talk is only adding to my stress, not helping it.

    It does make you wary of telling the whole truth, when you know they are not thinking in the best interests of the couple, but, in what they consider to be the best interests of the one they are directly related too.

    Take care

    Love xx
     

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