So bizarre !

Onlyme

Registered User
Apr 5, 2010
4,992
0
UK
I'm a bit confused. Your MIL is in a ward, held under a mental health section, hallucinates, deemed not to have capacity and yet they want to list a POVA against her. Yes, she probably start it but for all the reasons mentioned.

How will this effect the ability to place her in a EMI home?

I'm impressed by your staying power as I would have found it all too much and had to walk away.

As for your SF and brother I suspect they have found the cost of the burial (£700 for a plot) v inclusive disposal of ashes too much of a waste of good drinking money.:mad:
 

cragmaid

Registered User
Oct 18, 2010
7,936
0
North East England
So they want to list MIL under the POVA ( protection of Vulnerable adults) scheme...that makes real sense when she is under section doesn't it?

Ann, I'm sorry to have to say this, but I cannot see how Mum can be "released" back into home care after this length of time and now that she is showing "violent" tendancies, at least not without 24/7 one to one care. This sounds terribly harsh, but I am really not sure that the day care would welcome someone back when they can turn violent ( however it manifested itself and with whatever provocation, sadly MIL has reacted badly) and if, God forbid, she cannot go to DC then you know yourself that you can no longer manage to care for her home single handed.

This is one dilemma I was lucky enough to be spared.

How about, going on to your funeral issues, you ask Dad to let you know when the funeral is and you will contact your sisters, then you can send them a card wil date and time and say that you would appreciate their support. Then you can say, hand on heart that they had been told.

No solutions I'm afraid, just support.x.x.
 

Moonflower

Registered User
Mar 28, 2012
773
0
I think the POVA listing will mean that daycare can't have her back - unless the hospital manage to change her medication and it is lifted.
Daycare could, presumably, be sued if MiL hurt someone and the POVA was on record
 

Spamar

Registered User
Oct 5, 2013
7,723
0
Suffolk
Hi JM, when I first met, no, when OH and I first started going out he said he would take me to north Wales. He had just been there for a trip with work mates. He never kept his word! But still mean to go some time, though probably not this year.....
 

Amy in the US

Registered User
Feb 28, 2015
4,616
0
USA
Greetings to everyone and repeated thanks for all the very kind messages of support and concern.

I still haven't got caught up with this thread but decided I will post an update anyway, as I'm not sure when I'll get caught up. So please know that while I'm behind in the posts on this thread and TP in general, I do think of you all often and hope everyone is as well as possible. And of course continued concern and support for Ann and the Mac family with their ongoing challenges. Ann, for your own sake, I hope the funeral/memorial/whatever they are doing is SOONER rather than later. I should think this interminable waiting to find out what is happening, and when, must be driving you mad.

All right, I am only partway through my update and it's already ridiculously long. So I'm going to post it over in the Tea Room in the Members Only area, in my thread there about my FIL having cancer.

The short version is that we had a very good visit with my parents-in-law and it was well worth the (long, to me) drive. My brother-in-law who also lives elsewhere decided to join us on short notice and it was good to see him.

My FIL is now in his second chemo cycle and has had a successful procedure to place a port-a-cath; I don't know what you call that in the UK.

He has lost a bit more weight and is a bit weaker and very, very tired, but is in better spirits than I would be. So far he's not having terrible side effects from the chemo, other than the fatigue, but we will see how that goes. I know it can take a bit of time for them to show up.

We spend most of our time helping my MIL to clear out a room in the house she's been using for her child minding (do you say day care in the UK?) business for the past 26 years. Lots of STUFF. For the gory details, see my other thread. I was not idle!

I am still having frustrating paperwork issues with my mother and got a call yesterday morning from the care home that my mother's lower plate of her dentures have gone missing. Mercifully the dentist returned my call on a Sunday and assured me that he can make her a new one and will see her this week and begin the process. My husband rushed over and searched her room and the rubbish bins (thanks to TP, I know where to look!) but her trash cans in her room had already been emptied that day and apparently the staff didn't think to look in them for the missing dentures. They will be costly to replace (no help from insurance) and although she can well afford it, it still feels upsetting. Especially as I'd had a particularly nice day on Saturday, the nicest in a very long time, and so the contrast was difficult. But enough of that.

I hate all of this cancer stuff with my FIL with a passion, but I hate the dementia stuff with my mother just as much, maybe more, it's hard to say and I probably shouldn't compare it.

I will see my in-laws again at the end of June or beginning of July, and will be there for a visit for at least ten days and probably longer. Also my FIL will have a CT scan in a couple of weeks and we will know more then, about what the cancer/chemo might be doing.

So thank you all and again, I'm sorry for the lack of personal replies, but please know I'm thinking of you all.
 

Onlyme

Registered User
Apr 5, 2010
4,992
0
UK
Hi Amy

May I suggest that your husband asks that any paper napkin or paper on the side of her plate is checked after each meal. I know one lady who would take out her teeth to eat her meal and then wrap them up and leave by her plate.
 

Slugsta

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
2,758
0
South coast of England
Evening all,

Amy, thanks for the update. I am glad that you had a good visit with the in-laws. I didn't realise that your MIL was a child minder (yes, we would call someone who looks after several children in her own home a childminder. 'Day care' would more likely be used for a nursery or play-group setting.) It's good to know that FIL is tolerating his chemo well.

Onlyme, good point about checking napkins after meals! What an absolute pain that the dentures have gone missing and need, costly, replacement :(

Spamar, I hope you get to visit north Wales before too long :)

Ann, it is just one thing after another for you, isn't it?? I'm sorry that you have another issue, in the form of the POVA, with MIL. I do think you need to know how this will affect DC before making arrangements for her discharge. It would be pretty disastrous to have her home thinking she can carry on there as usual - only to discover that they will not have her! Of course, she already has 'history' there, so they might take this with a pinch of salt. . .

Your own family are certainly not making things easy, are they?:mad: I think Cragmaid's idea was a very good one. If you feel you want to do something about contacting your siblings, do it in writing. However, if you feel that, for your own health, you prefer to keep right out of it, then do so! I don't believe that anything anyone does will affect your mum now, so try and do what sits best with you.

How are your hip and back? I do hope they are starting to feel better without all the bed changing etc.

I have a poorly kitty who is causing some concern. She is aprox 15, so getting on but not ancient. The vet will ring tomorrow with blood results and we will, hopefully, know what we are dealing with. It makes me appreciate the NHS when I pay £130 for one consultation, one anti-nausea injection and one blood panel!

It has been a lovely day here, but not uncomfortably hot. I missed aquagym because I wanted to phone the vet first thing. Still managed coffee and lunch with best friend though :)
 

jknight

Registered User
Oct 23, 2015
807
0
Hampshire
Greetings to everyone and repeated thanks for all the very kind messages of support and concern.

I still haven't got caught up with this thread but decided I will post an update anyway, as I'm not sure when I'll get caught up. So please know that while I'm behind in the posts on this thread and TP in general, I do think of you all often and hope everyone is as well as possible. And of course continued concern and support for Ann and the Mac family with their ongoing challenges. Ann, for your own sake, I hope the funeral/memorial/whatever they are doing is SOONER rather than later. I should think this interminable waiting to find out what is happening, and when, must be driving you mad.

All right, I am only partway through my update and it's already ridiculously long. So I'm going to post it over in the Tea Room in the Members Only area, in my thread there about my FIL having cancer.

The short version is that we had a very good visit with my parents-in-law and it was well worth the (long, to me) drive. My brother-in-law who also lives elsewhere decided to join us on short notice and it was good to see him.

My FIL is now in his second chemo cycle and has had a successful procedure to place a port-a-cath; I don't know what you call that in the UK.

He has lost a bit more weight and is a bit weaker and very, very tired, but is in better spirits than I would be. So far he's not having terrible side effects from the chemo, other than the fatigue, but we will see how that goes. I know it can take a bit of time for them to show up.

We spend most of our time helping my MIL to clear out a room in the house she's been using for her child minding (do you say day care in the UK?) business for the past 26 years. Lots of STUFF. For the gory details, see my other thread. I was not idle!

I am still having frustrating paperwork issues with my mother and got a call yesterday morning from the care home that my mother's lower plate of her dentures have gone missing. Mercifully the dentist returned my call on a Sunday and assured me that he can make her a new one and will see her this week and begin the process. My husband rushed over and searched her room and the rubbish bins (thanks to TP, I know where to look!) but her trash cans in her room had already been emptied that day and apparently the staff didn't think to look in them for the missing dentures. They will be costly to replace (no help from insurance) and although she can well afford it, it still feels upsetting. Especially as I'd had a particularly nice day on Saturday, the nicest in a very long time, and so the contrast was difficult. But enough of that.

I hate all of this cancer stuff with my FIL with a passion, but I hate the dementia stuff with my mother just as much, maybe more, it's hard to say and I probably shouldn't compare it.

I will see my in-laws again at the end of June or beginning of July, and will be there for a visit for at least ten days and probably longer. Also my FIL will have a CT scan in a couple of weeks and we will know more then, about what the cancer/chemo might be doing.

So thank you all and again, I'm sorry for the lack of personal replies, but please know I'm thinking of you all.

It's called a Pick Line here! I compare cancer/Alzheimer's regularly. Dad had oesophageal cancer and died two years ago. To the very last day he was as sharp as a knife. Mum stared exhibiting worrying symptoms just under a year ago (looking back there were lots of indications before but we put it down to grief) All I can say is they are both horrible diseases and I would really rather not have either. Dad worried about leaving mum behind (they were a couple from when she was 15 - she was 83 when dad died) we did a lot to reassure him we would look after her.
Mum's short term memory is shot to bits. She thinks that she can look after herself but she can't (meds, food etc) she has meals on wheels (but keeps leaving me notes asking to cancel as 'I can get meals myself' (the notes go straight in my pocket then she forgets that she has written them))
It has been an awful five years. I hope I get rundown by the bus that waits until you don't have 'respectable' underwear on!!
 

jknight

Registered User
Oct 23, 2015
807
0
Hampshire
Evening all,

Amy, thanks for the update. I am glad that you had a good visit with the in-laws. I didn't realise that your MIL was a child minder (yes, we would call someone who looks after several children in her own home a childminder. 'Day care' would more likely be used for a nursery or play-group setting.) It's good to know that FIL is tolerating his chemo well.

Onlyme, good point about checking napkins after meals! What an absolute pain that the dentures have gone missing and need, costly, replacement :(

Spamar, I hope you get to visit north Wales before too long :)

Ann, it is just one thing after another for you, isn't it?? I'm sorry that you have another issue, in the form of the POVA, with MIL. I do think you need to know how this will affect DC before making arrangements for her discharge. It would be pretty disastrous to have her home thinking she can carry on there as usual - only to discover that they will not have her! Of course, she already has 'history' there, so they might take this with a pinch of salt. . .

Your own family are certainly not making things easy, are they?:mad: I think Cragmaid's idea was a very good one. If you feel you want to do something about contacting your siblings, do it in writing. However, if you feel that, for your own health, you prefer to keep right out of it, then do so! I don't believe that anything anyone does will affect your mum now, so try and do what sits best with you.

How are your hip and back? I do hope they are starting to feel better without all the bed changing etc.

I have a poorly kitty who is causing some concern. She is aprox 15, so getting on but not ancient. The vet will ring tomorrow with blood results and we will, hopefully, know what we are dealing with. It makes me appreciate the NHS when I pay £130 for one consultation, one anti-nausea injection and one blood panel!

It has been a lovely day here, but not uncomfortably hot. I missed aquagym because I wanted to phone the vet first thing. Still managed coffee and lunch with best friend though :)

Slugsta,

Just wanted to let you know that my beautiful cat made it to 20!!

Not sure how to post photos otherwise I would post a photo from when she was a grand old lady x
 

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Slugsta

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
2,758
0
South coast of England
Ok! The photo is the wrong way round (it's a start!!!) She was sitting up!

She's lovely! And quite similar to my little black and white girl :) We're not sure how old Cleo is - she came to us from my SIL, who got her from Cat Protection. Our previous cats, littlermates, lived to 19 and 20 respectively.
 

jknight

Registered User
Oct 23, 2015
807
0
Hampshire
She's lovely! And quite similar to my little black and white girl :) We're not sure how old Cleo is - she came to us from my SIL, who got her from Cat Protection. Our previous cats, littlermates, lived to 19 and 20 respectively.

Thank you. We lost her just after Easter. It's been a rough few years x
 

Amy in the US

Registered User
Feb 28, 2015
4,616
0
USA
Slugsta, yes, a childminder, that's it! I knew I knew the term, I just couldn't bring it to mind. Most recently she had three tots under age four plus an infant, and did I mention she is over 70 and has arthritis? She is a tough lady but has a lot on her plate right now and I hope the relief from the childminding duties will be a help.

I'm so very sorry to hear about your kitty being unwell and am sending good wishes. I have two cats of my own, of whom I'm inordinately (and probably unwisely) fond, and I know how I'd feel in your position. Having recently paid a very large sum of money for one to have a tooth extracted, I could wish for some sort of health care benefit for pets! Please keep us updated.

I missed the bit about Ann's stepdad/whomever wanting Ann to be the one to "update" the other siblings and all that palaver. I liked the postcard idea, or maybe DH would make the calls for you? It's ridiculous that they can't do it themselves, of course.

And extra thanks to lemony for the tip about checking the tray/table after meals. That would be an easy one to miss and wasn't a denture disposal method with which I was previously familiar. The replacement cost, while affordable for my mother, is high enough that I'd prefer to avoid having to do it if not necessary. At least the dentist who goes to my mother's care home can take care of it, rather than me having to take her to appointments. That was stressful before dementia and has only gotten worse since, and she's not doing as well on outings these days, so I can only imagine what that would be like.

Again, very best wishes to you all and I don't mean to slight anyone by not responding directly.
 

Ann Mac

Registered User
Oct 17, 2013
3,693
0
Hi everyone,

Amy - thanks for the update on your Fil. I'm glad you had a good visit, but I will bet that between worry, your Mum and the travelling, you really are 'knackered' hun - take care of yourself too, if you can. Mil is frequently without her bottom dentures when we go to see her at the moment, but (touch wood) so far the staff on the ward have managed to track them down everytime. She is getting some discomfort from them, due to (according to the dentist) her jaw bone shrinking with age, which apparently can happen quite rapidly sometimes. It means that there is no point in having new dentures made - further shrinkage would just make them a poor fit too - so I had arranged for regular (6 weekly) visits where the dentist could use a sort of 'filler' and 'filing' method to keep alterning the dentures and stop them rubbing - of course, now Mil is in hospital, that's on hold and it looks like the teeth are rubbing her again, she takes them out so often. They get stashed everywhere - she hoisted up her top and whipped them out of her bra, one day, in front of OH - a sight he tells me he could have done without :rolleyes:

Hope that kitty is OK, Slugsta - its awful when a pet is ill, and a worry as they start to get older - I fret about my old doggy, Busta now nearly 14, and though he is in mostly good health, I can see that he is getting on a bit and dread him getting ill xxxx

Spamar, I think that there are area's of North Wales that are absolutely stunning - I think Anglesey, for example, is one of the most beautiful places on the planet - so worth a visit if you can xxx

It seems that great minds think alike -I too wondered about DC and all the other things with Mil. I also wondered how on earth a POVA could be issued against soemone who has been deemed as not having mental capacity :confused: So - firstly, I phoned the ward and asked to speak to 'someone' who could explain clearly how this 'POVA' works with Mil - and what the implications are. The person who spoke to OH was very formal, merely saying that Mil had been involved in an 'altercation', had 'hit' another patient and they had 'issued a POVA' - I wanted the details. So - the 'incident' boils down to another very disruptive patient, who shouts, stomps and apparently 'invades personal space' getting very close to Mil whilst she (the other patient) was being 'noisy' - she was 'crowding' Mil. Mil tried to doge around her, there was an excange of words, the woman raised her arm to prevent Mil getting past her - and Mil 'sort of gave a little smack' against the womans arm to stop her blocking Mil's escape. That was it. That was Mil 'hitting' another person :rolleyes: But because it involved her making 'physical contact' its considered an assault by hospital rules, and they then have to issue this POVA - which is basically, in this instance, 'paperwork' generated to cover the hospitals backside. The Behavioural Support team will get a report, there may be an assessment if its felt necessary and any 'avoidence stratagies' will be put in place only if its felt its needed - and quite probably, unless Mil 'attacks' anyone else, that will be as far as it will go - the 'assessment and stratagies' will possibly not even be required. Why the person OH spoke to didn't explain this, I really don't know. The staff I spoke to actually saw the 'incident' and was quick to tell me that Mil was instantly upset and apologised for smacking the other womans arm, the staff adding that it was 'nothing really' and that us being notified and the whole 'POVA' thing is an automatic response due to 'policy'. Its absolutely nothing like my understanding of POVA's, but there you go. To be on the safe side, I phoned DC and spoke to 'S' - the manager - and she was (like me) inclined to roll eyes and sniff that its a case of 'stupid paperwork and covering bums!'. She also said that as far as DC were concerned, they had not been given any information that would cause them to not hold Mil's place for her, and as far as they are concerned, if and when she comes home, she is very welcome to go back there.

I still have no idea about when My Mum's funeral is - yet again, the promised phone call didn't happen. Maureen, I did contact one sister and give her the news - this is the sister who responded with the heartbreaking outpouring of everything Mum had done to her over the years and who is obviously still suffering trauma over it all. She made it very clear she would NOT come to the funeral, and why - and I respect and understand her reasoning. So, I did what SD wanted initially where she is concerned - and its now that I am refusing to put her under pressure by trying to persuade her to change her mind. The other sister - I know she lives locally, but haven't had any contact with her for around 13 years (no one in the family has), I don't have an address or number, have no idea where she works or even if she works. And I don't want to know, nor do I want to have any contact - she never brings anything but grief to any encounter, and SD has acknowledged all this - which is why, I guess, he wants me to be the 'messenger' . I'm not putting myself through dealing with her, and I honestly feel he will regret it if I did. I can't stop him trying to contact her - but I'm having no part of it. At the moment, I'm mainly frustrated by the lack of info and the not phoning/contacting me when he (SD) says he will - I know that its down to a combination of me refusing to do as he wants over the sisters, and because its a sort of 'punishment' for me backing off from Mum for the last 2 years - and if he wants to be like that, fine. My concern is that if he doesn't pass on info, the chances of oldest getting here for the funeral are affected - and again, although Oldest mainly wants to go for his sake, if she isn't there I think he will react badly and I don't want him storing up anything that he may later use to give her a hard time over. To sum it all up, you know, everything I am doing now is aimed at preventing any further bad feeling and potential hassle and upset. I am not going to risk upsetting the one sister who is (justifiably) refusing to attend, I know that having the other sister there is an invitation to trouble, and I am trying to avoid giving SD and brother any reason (excuse?) not to feel justified in critising me or my family at the funeral. As for going to the funeral myself, would it really matter if I didn't? Well, my feeling is that she was my Mum. I couldn't, despite years of trying, have the relationship I would have loved to have with her, I regret that for the last two years I had to stay away (but still believe that was the right thing for me to do) but I feel that I just want to be there to say a quiet and dignified 'goodbye' - its the last thing I can do for her, and in an odd way, for me too.

Oldest has headed off back to Stockport, but son's GF has come to stay for a few days, and son has talked us into going to the zoo with them today. It will be a slow plod round for me. I can't say that there has been any improvement in my hip after that blasted injection, sadly. If anything, its caused more pain because I know I have been walking awkwardly to compensate for the after-effects, and that's impacted on my back, knees and ankles :( I have a follow up appointment next week, where I believe they are likely to suggest giving it a second try - I'm going to try and keep my response to a reasonably polite (under the circumstances) 'Not bliddy likely - go take a running jump!'.

Tomorrow, we have a meeting with Mil's consultant and the rest of the hospital gang - I'll update you if there is any news. Take care everyone, and again, thank you for all the support - I hope you realise just how much I appreciate it all xxxx
 

Batsue

Registered User
Nov 4, 2014
4,893
0
Scotland
I must admit that I thought it strange that a POVA has been issued against Mil, it does not seem appropriate in the circumstances.

Have a lovely time at the zoo xx.
 

Onlyme

Registered User
Apr 5, 2010
4,992
0
UK
Ann I would ring around the funeral directors to see if they have already made arrangements. It sounds like your FIL is pulling a fast one to exclude you until after the event.
 

Ann Mac

Registered User
Oct 17, 2013
3,693
0
Ann I would ring around the funeral directors to see if they have already made arrangements. It sounds like your FIL is pulling a fast one to exclude you until after the event.

He was due to speak to them yesterday, Lemony - there are so many in the area, I wouldn't know where to start - but I guess if it comes to that, I'll have to. Its so silly - I made it really clear that if he didn't want me there for any reason, given that Mum and I hadn't been in touch, I would understand and respect his and my brothers wishes. His response was that he very much wanted me there - but now his actions are making it harder than it need be. I have to think about daughter getting time off from her teaching job - thankfully, after today, she has no more classes who have exams to take, so she shouldn't have much trouble, it would just be polite and professional for her to be able to give as much notice as possible - and son (who is working part time through the Summer) and OH, who both also need to notify work asap. I explained all this, tactfully, and said that I'd really appreciate the info as soon as possible - and still, nothing. I don't want to seem to be pestering, but not sure I'm being given much choice :( You know, I never 'fell out' with SD - I've seen him, he's phoned, we have talked over the last 2 years - he was saddened by but accepted my decision, even if I never gave him the full story. I guess chosing to resent and be angry with me is how he is channelling his grief. I'm trying to be understanding, but at the same time, I'm getting increasingly fed up :(

Thanks Sue xxx
 

RedLou

Registered User
Jul 30, 2014
1,161
0
Would the crematorium tell you when the service is booked for? -Just a thought if SD is playing silly b*ggers. That is the trouble with drinkers, in my experience - emotional maturity goes on hold. Mind you, my ex SiL almost made my mother's funeral all about her and she was not a drinker, just a pain in the proverbial. I had her shouting down the phone - ringing my half-sister on auto-dial - but my brother did not want her at the funeral, he wanted his current (then very new) partner and I had to go with his wish and also, did not want my ex-SiL causing a scene. I put this in just so you know you're not the only one with trying relatives! *hug* Have a brilliant and sunny day at the zoo -- look after that hip!