Should my brother be told about dad going in to a care home?

Discussion in 'End of life care' started by greenpea, Oct 18, 2014.

  1. greenpea

    greenpea Registered User

    Aug 12, 2014
    57
    #1 greenpea, Oct 18, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2015
    Dad was in hospital for 3 weeks, came home for 1 week and is back in again. The first time, he had a kidney infection. When he came home, he was much more confused and didn't want to do anything. My sister, who lives next door and is his carer, has decided she can't care for him any more. My other sister and I both agree he needs to be in a care home now. The problem is that they don't want my brother to be told until my dad is actually in the home.

    My brother has never been very good at visiting dad and hasn't really helped very much doing things for him such as the gardening etc. We have also found that when told dad is in hospital, he keeps phoning the hospital to see how dad is when we've all been asked that only one person phones or he'll try to take over decisions which we should all be making. My sisters also feel he only visited dad when he needed to borrow money. So neither of my sisters talk to him any more at all.

    On the other hand, we all had a meeting a while back and all agreed that myself and the sister who is caring for dad would have POA as long as dad agreed. Last year when I brought the subject up, my sisters told me they had already arranged it. Dad also had a few thousand pounds in the bank. All that disappeared within a year and dad is in arrears on his bills despite enough money going in to his account to pay his bills. I have also just found out, they have both been talking with the social worker to arrange for dad to go in to a care home. I wasn't told about this. They have asked me if I am in agreement but asked me not to tell my brother as they feel he will try to stop it or say that my sister just wants rid of dad.

    Can I please ask what you would do? If I tell my brother, my sisters probably won't talk to me any more. If I don't tell my brother, he probably won't talk to me. Either way, I lose.
     
  2. Benrese

    Benrese Registered User

    Apr 12, 2014
    185
    Lancashire
    Hi Greenpea,

    My goodness, family dynamics, eh? You've got loads of them.

    Since you are asking what we would do, for me-I would want to be fair. And to me, being fair means being inclusive. If your brother has problems following the majority agreement in the family, there can be measures put into place to minimize them. For example, you can tell the hospital who should be involved with your Dad's care and all others will need to contact the designated family member to get more details.

    It also sounds like your sisters have gone ahead and not told you for this very reason. Again, I don't feel that is fair. You should be included on what's going on, regardless of if you share your Dad's current situation or not.

    If all things are as they were stated, that your brother hasn't really been involved, etc-then I doubt he could get in the way of what the family majority have agreed.

    Perhaps your brother can visit your Dad, once he is secured and settled. And perhaps keeping him in the loop and letting him know the ground rules will help stop any future bad feelings between the siblings.

    It's a tough one, though...it really is. We are currently in a difficult situation as well with family. It seems like those tiny cracks in the family foundation can really be shaken when a serious crisis comes to surface.

    I wish you much luck!
     
  3. angecmc

    angecmc Registered User

    Dec 25, 2012
    2,108
    hertfordshire
    Hi, I think I would say to your Sisters that a family meeting should take place, where your Sister who has done most of the caring for your Dad could put everyone in the picture as to how bad things have got and she can say she is unable to care for your Dad in the way he needs now, your brother could then be told that it is felt the best option for your Dad is a care home. It is unlikely that he would want to take over the care himself and I would be saying to him the options are care home or he would have to have his Dad living with him and become the sole carer. I agree with you, nobody should be left out of being told what is going to happen. For me, I just told my brother that Mum had become too much for Dad and I to care for and informed him that we had found a lovely care home for Mum. He never objected even though most of the time he had mostly told me what I should and shouldn't have been doing for Mum, he was never forthcoming with hands on help. He rarely visits Mum in the home, comes up with excuse after excuse as to why he can't visit and we have since fallen out and I no longer speak to him, but my conscience is completely clear as to keeping him informed about both my parents, even though I feel he doesn't deserve it. I send texts if he needs informing about anything these days. Tell your Sisters you don't want to fall out with any of them over this and the family meeting is the way to go xx

    Ange
     
  4. greenpea

    greenpea Registered User

    Aug 12, 2014
    57
    #4 greenpea, Oct 20, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2015
    Thank you both for your replies.

    Benrese, you are right I think. My sisters don't tell me things in case I tell my brother. My sisters are worried in case my brother says something to dad, maybe saying he shouldn't be in a home so making it more difficult to get him there. I think my brother will visit dad in the care home just as little as he does now. As for ground rules, he won't take any notice of what my sisters say. They all fell out about 2 years ago and there is no sign of them talking again, even for dad's sake. (He knows they don't talk and has said it is ridiculous). You are so right about the cracks being shaken. I hope things work out for you and your family.

    Ange, a meeting sounds like a great idea to me but there is no way I could get my sisters and brother together. I spoke to my brother a couple of weeks ago and told him how difficult it was for my sister and he said possibly it might be time for a care home. He doesn't seem to object to that. My sisters just feel he'll do what he can to make things more difficult for them (not my dad). Sounds as if you have a similar situation. Glad you managed to do what you feel is right for your parents.

    I've been away visiting my daughter this last week. I got a message on social media asking me to chat to both of my sisters. I told them that I wasn't happy being piggy-in-the-middle and that I thought our brother should know. My other sister seemed to get quite angry and said that I should try putting up with everything my sister has to put up with and that if I tell my brother she will flip. I mentioned that dad had told me some things which had happened that my sisters hadn't told me. They seemed to get a bit flustered and said that I can't believe what dad says because of the Alzheimers. I really feel like walking away from it all and letting them sort it all out themselves. (In case you think that's a bit unfair of me, I posted a while ago about dad abusing me when I was a child.) Only problem is, they'd feel horrified if I did walk away. And even more horrified if I tell them why.
     
  5. angecmc

    angecmc Registered User

    Dec 25, 2012
    2,108
    hertfordshire
    I don't think you are being unfair, feeling like walking away from it all, sounds like you are in an impossible situation. I am sorry to hear about the abuse you suffered, I don't think I would have had the strength that you have shown in trying to help your family with your Dad, my husband was abused by his Dad and he refused to be anywhere near him as an adult. I hope things can be resolved for you all. Sometimes the only thing left is to walk away, like I did from my brother. Take care xx

    Ange
     
  6. halojones

    halojones Registered User

    May 7, 2014
    438
    Family

    I also have very difficult siblings,...Your situation is that your 2 sisters have not been very honest and have obviously taken advantage of your dad financially,(mine 2 sisters did the same, and won't face me now!) so they dont want to get in trouble and just need to get your dad into a CH, without your brother making a fuss and bringing attention to themselves..Now, your brother doesn't want your dad to go to a CH because it sounds like he still wants to get a few quid off your dad...dropping in when it suits him,getting £...But the main thing is your sis was his main carer, your dad has got much worse,so really it is now the best thing for your dad to go into a CH.and everyone has to respect her descision...Because of the unpleasant history between your siss and brother, then he should be told after your dad is settled in a CH, its too much as it is without a difficult, unreasonable sibling making it all worse..!.I think you must keep with your sisters, go with there wishes, you will just have to accept they have spent the money (I was told this by a solicitor)as there really is not anything that you can do about it..( I couldn't, even though I tried)..As you have reasons to be upset about your childhood, you could just distance yourself from the whole situation,let them get on with it...But if I was you, try and stay with your sisters, they will be there in the future, as the potential for you all to fall out is huge, , and you don't want to end up on your own in the future...Do what is best for you,r..Take Care
    Sometimes, this illness just brings out the worst in some people, but thankfully it also brings out the be St..x
     
  7. greenpea

    greenpea Registered User

    Aug 12, 2014
    57
    Oh Ange, I hear more and more about child abuse. I hope your husband has been able to cope with it. I won't say 'got over it' but we never do. Yes, I am very close to walking away.

    Halo, you are right. It is time for dad to go to a care home. My sister really can't deal with any more. I'm not worrying any more about the money going as I think dad will be ok without it now. It's just the fact that my sisters could do it. I guess that's one thing I'm worried about, ending up with no family. There is so much stress when dealing with this illness, you're right, it does bring out the worst.
     
  8. Katrine

    Katrine Registered User

    Jan 20, 2011
    2,839
    England
    I can't add much greenpea, but I am sorry to hear about this family culture of secrecy and power games. I just wondered, because of the way your siblings control information, whether there actually is a POA?

    If anyone has registered POA for your Dad then you should have been notified (that's if it is the older style Enduring Power of Attorney). It's a requirement for the EPA registration process that close relatives like children are informed and given a period of time to object if needed. However, if it is a newer Lasting Power of Attorney, only those people named by the donor in the LPA document need by notified when it is being registered.

    If you ring the Office of the Public Guardian they can tell you what to do to find out if there actually is a POA. I suppose if there isn't, and your Dad only has his state benefits and pension, then there only needs to be someone appointed by the DWP to manage this income.
     
  9. greenpea

    greenpea Registered User

    Aug 12, 2014
    57
    Thank you Katrine. My brother phoned them. That's how we found out that both my sisters had POA. Don't know what type though.
     
  10. Caroleca

    Caroleca Registered User

    Jan 11, 2014
    331
    Ontario canada
    Green pea, I remember your original posts....I feel for you because you r forever struggling...should I tell? You father was abusive...and you have not discussed it with your sisters...your sister accuses your brother of the same thing..yet..you r in touch with your brother who is not talking to your sisters. Poor you...it is awful! Family meeting...no I don't think so. However, I do think you need to get yourself some counselling for YOU...you need to make yourself number one and forget about your siblings for the time being. Please walk away from the disfunction and look after green pea....that's my advise...xo
     
  11. greenpea

    greenpea Registered User

    Aug 12, 2014
    57
    Thank you Caroleca. I did contact the Alzheimers Society to ask if, as dad started thinking more about the past, would he start abusing me again. They pointed me in the direction of someone I could talk to. I eventually phoned them a couple of nights ago and found it helpful to at least talk to someone about it and have it put in perspective. They have suggested I contact a councillor (from a list on their site) and that I tell my siblings what happened as, in the long run, it will be better for my health to get it off my chest. Still trying to decide when to do it.

    Meanwhile dad was transferred to a care home which is about 20 minutes walk from where I live. He didn't want to go and is talking about going home soon. My sisters expect me to call in regularly. Still a bit confused about whether I walk away from my abuser or continue visiting the old frail man who is very confused and unhappy.
     
  12. angecmc

    angecmc Registered User

    Dec 25, 2012
    2,108
    hertfordshire
    So sorry for you, it must be so hard, its difficult to tell you what you should do as I was fortunately not abused although my husband was, he told both his siblings before his father died as they couldn't understand why he wouldn't visit his Dad, they were shocked and be feels they may not have believed him but says he felt better for having told them, I felt sorry for my husband as if my siblings had told me such a horrendous thing as that, I would like to think I would have offered my support. I think if I were in your position, I would tell them about the abuse as it is unfair on you to have to make regular visits to your Dad given the past. If you do want to visit and this should be entirely your choice, could you go with someone else, I don't think I would want to be alone with him, in fairness, if it was me, I would have walked away, but understand it isn't always easy. You owe him nothing, considering your situation, do what is right for you not what will keep the rest of your family happy. Good luck xx

    Ange
     
  13. greenpea

    greenpea Registered User

    Aug 12, 2014
    57
    Ange, I remember you saying your husband had been abused. I can't believe how often this happens. I had 2 aunties and cousins staying over the weekend and both cousins had been flashed as children.

    I went to see dad today and realised I'm overdoing the 'caring' about him. Think I'm trying to hide how I really feel. And I was alone in his room with him with the door closed.

    Tomorrow all 4 of us are meeting at dad's house to sort everything out. He rents the house and my sister has been told we have until Friday morning to clear the house and hand the keys in. I was hoping everyone can be civil at least then my sister phoned and told me that because dad's money had run out, his insurance had lapsed. It was reinstated when my sister and her mother-in-law paid half each to the insurance company. And could we all start paying £5 every month to keep it going. My brother keeps talking about how he is positive my sisters have taken dad's money so tomorrow should be fun. I'm dreading it.
     
  14. angecmc

    angecmc Registered User

    Dec 25, 2012
    2,108
    hertfordshire
    Hope your family meet went ok today without too much hassle. I feel for you having to pay £5 each month to keep your fathers insurance going, I know its not a lot of money its the principal of knowing what he did in the past.x

    Ange
     
  15. loza

    loza Registered User

    Jul 4, 2013
    22
    Poa

    When mum and dad did their financial poa my brother was informed by the solicitor, we have an open book policy on it, I hold poa, ( we have another bro in Auz, but he disowned my parents 5 years ago, they then wrote him out of the will and any decisions being made regarding mum) but we have regular meetings to go thro things and anyone can look at expenditure on mums account, mum is in a care home with last stage dementia, this works for us!!:)
     
  16. greenpea

    greenpea Registered User

    Aug 12, 2014
    57
    Just read through and realised I didn't say that I did eventually tell my brother about dad going in to a care home. He was fine about it and agreed it was the right thing to do.

    Thanks Ange. Everything went very well. We all just got on with it and asked the others before we threw anything out. We each took the ornaments etc that we had bought for mum and dad, put dad's personal things and all the photos in a box. Some of these will be taken up to dad and the rest stored for now. The furniture etc is to be sold and the money kept in case dad needs clothes, toiletries etc. At least I hope that's what it will be used for.

    Ioza, I think that sounds like the correct way to go about things but it won't work for us as my sisters don't want anything to do with my brother. They spoke to him yesterday just to keep the peace while we cleared dad's house. The sister who is dad's carer also has POA and keeps everything close to her chest. When dad started getting letters saying bills weren't being paid or that he was overdrawn in the bank, I asked my sister what was going on as dad had enough pension money going in to pay all his bills and also had several thousand pounds in savings. She said she thought dad was taking all the money out each week and possibly hiding it.

    While I was going through some old paperwork, I came across a bank statement (which I put in my pocket so I could study it at home) showing that dad was going backwards and forwards between having a few pounds in the bank and being overdrawn. Two months previously, one and a half thousand pounds was transferred from my dad's account to my sisters account. I'm going to have to ask why that was. Makes me feel even less like paying the £5 a month for the insurance which would be used his funeral expenses. And I want details of the insurance before I agree to pay it. And proof that my money is going to pay it.
     
  17. loza

    loza Registered User

    Jul 4, 2013
    22
    Poa

    Greenpea, under POA law, set out by courts etc, POA's are not allowed to tranfer ANY money from your fathers account to her own, so he may have done this otherwise the law has been broken, we were also a very dysfunctional family but have pulled together for the purpose of putting our mum first, not been easy but glad it has been achieved,as I informed them "I am not an only child" !!!
     
  18. greenpea

    greenpea Registered User

    Aug 12, 2014
    57
    That's very interesting loza. I have studied the bank statement some more and found a loan payment and also that my sister has transferred the exact amount from her account to dad's account. I do remember her asking me if I would take out a loan for her some time ago so I'm guessing she either asked dad to do it or used his name to apply for it. There is only one month of the statement so no idea if she continued to pay it. At least that has solved the £1500.

    I'm glad for you that your family have pulled together for your mum's sake.
     

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