Shall I leave Mom in care where she is safe?

Discussion in 'ARCHIVE FORUM: Support discussions' started by kayleigh999, Apr 20, 2008.

  1. kayleigh999

    kayleigh999 Registered User

    Apr 6, 2007
    #1 kayleigh999, Apr 20, 2008
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2008
    Hi All

    Have not been on for ages as have had such a hectic time this year with my parents it is untrue. I will try to briefly explain the situation and wonder is anyone can advise please.

    Mom 82 diagnosed with vascular dementia and capras syndrome last year. She is moderate-severe now. Dad is principal carer, well in the respect he lives with her and I do all housework, shopping, taking them to appintments and sorting out bills and liasing with healthcare professionals and social workers etc. Dad not the most patient man and is also very arrogant and pig-headed, as in wont listen to anyone or do as he is told.

    Well, things going ok (ish) until new year this year when dad fell and broke ankle, a severe break which meant he had to stay in hospital for weeks and have metal plate in. Mom was put into respite which I had to sort all myself as my Brothers just said "you move in with her, will only be for the couple of days he is in "(!)

    Anyway she settled nicely and I used to take her daily to see dad. She has very reduced mobility and very prone to falls but we muddled through.Then Dad was discharged and it turned into a pantomime, he wanted Mom home and against advice of social workers and friends I did just that. It was a disaster, Mom wandering around filthy and burning 3 kettles a week, dad almost immobile and taking an hour to get into bed, leaving her to her own devices and Mom falling and crying all the time as dad, in his impatiant way is running the wheelchair into her poor legs.

    I got social worker to visit who rang and said he wont let her back in but will agree to care for her (which has still to happen) I dont think care an hour a day will suffice as its the 12 hours in the day she is with him i am worried about!

    Anyway moving on Dad had to go back in to have plates out as MRSA has set in. He has 2 wounds and one is 5inches wide and down to the bone. So I get Mom back into emercency respite again and again she starts to look well cared for and happier again.
    Dad discharged 2 weeks ago with wound care at home and wants Mom out, I stood my ground and said no. Since then he admitted twice again for falls, stupid things like using a zimmer with one hand and carrying a cup of tea with other. On one occasion I had taken Mom there for a visit and left them have some time together when it happened. She was feebly banging the wall to next door with a tea-spoon to try to get help as Dad was stuck on floor.I did all the arrangements for a careline for him and the day before it was due to be fitted he told me to cancel it as they are a"load of rubbish!"

    Anyhow up to present day, he is due home Monday and wants here home again. Part of the reason,well maybe the main one is in 2 weeks time Mom's status in home goes from "respite bed" to "permanent bed" and the fee changes from 65 pound a week contribution to 400 pound. Whilst I agree its scandalous I still think its better as Mom is safe there. Dad keeps saying he wants her home and is not paying that, he is not short of money and has X number of thousands of pounds stuffed in a tin! Does anyone know how it works? they have savings of less than 20k but do own their house. I know They get pension tax credit and only pay a small contribution to council tax. I thought I read on here that Dad would stay in house until he dies then all the fees that are owed for Moms stay are then taken off house profit. I have tried to look for the fact sheets on here but cant see them.

    I am totally dreading him coming home and the ensuing chaos it will bring, my brothers who do not help just say let him get on with it, well one is adamant she must come home soon and I know in his mind he can see his inheritance dwindling! My thoughts are, although yes its is annoying it is THEIR money at moment and if it is needed to give Mom a better life then so be it, such is life. I tried to talk to Dad last night and say lets leave Mom but he is so arrogant and pig-headed he just spoke over me. He is still very immobile and disabled and they live in a house with stairs.

    Any advice anyone. Sorry its long but my head is totally being done in taking 20 phone calls a day from Dad to do this that and the other when he wont listen to medical advice, pay for a carer for himself and lies to the hospital that I live there so he can get out.PS have come backon to edit as have found fact sheets. Still very confused and cant seem to see my parents example.

    Thanks for reading

  2. Cate

    Cate Registered User

    Jul 2, 2006
    Newport, Gwent
    #2 Cate, Apr 20, 2008
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2008
    Hi Kayleigh

    Reading your post, I think you already know what is best for your mum!!

    So I get Mom back into emercency respite again and again she starts to look well cared for and happier again

    I think your comment above just about sums it all up.

    It seems that both mum and dad are both at risk, at least with mum in the NH you know she is well cared for and more importantly safe.

    Your dad, hummm, him wanting mum home could mean that in his view, he is keeping things as they were, but we know that this isnt the case anymore. I agree the financial aspect could figure quite significantly to him, and I have to say, having to sell mum's home to pay for her care has stuck in my throat, but thats another story. I am sorry I cannot help with advice on this one, my dad died years ago, so I have no clue on this situation, but Im sure other's will.

    I think you have to try and separate the needs of both your parents individually, and take it from there.

    I would suggest though, if you decide that mum should remain in the NH, it might be better to take dad to see her, and not take mum home on a daily basis, you may find over time that this is harder for both of them, and you.

    You clearly care very much for your parents, and are doing a sterling job, a word to the wise though, try and remember 'you' in all of this, its a long haul, and you must try to remember you have a family too.

    Best wishes
  3. kayleigh999

    kayleigh999 Registered User

    Apr 6, 2007
    #3 kayleigh999, Apr 20, 2008
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2008

    Thank you for your advice. They wont let Dad visit Mom as he has active MRSA and I can see their point. It does unsettle her when I take her home to visit him rather than hospital and in some ways seems madness in itself. She cries and plays up when she has to go back.I just think its the only way they will get to see each other and I feel so sad and sorry for them both.

    My best wishes to you.

  4. Cate001

    Cate001 Registered User

    Apr 20, 2008

    How daft am I, duh, of course they wouldnt want you taking MRSA into the NH.

    Keep strong, I am sure you will work it all out.

    Cate xx
  5. Skye

    Skye Registered User

    Aug 29, 2006
    SW Scotland
    Hi Kayleigh

    It does seem an impossible situation, with neither parent able to care for themself, but each wanting to be at home. I do think your mum needs to be in care, your dad obviously can't manage in his present situation, and that's not likely to improve if he keeps falling.

    I know about the MRSA wound, I was horrified when I saw John's, and it's going to take months to clear up.

    I don't think that things are as black as you think on the financial front. The house will not be taken into account at all as long as your dad continues to live in it. If he had to go into care, the house would then have to be sold to fund care, presumably for them both (not sure about that one, someone else will know).

    If your mum has less than £21,500 then they will only pay a proportion of the fees. And bear in mind that only half of their joint savings would be regarded as your mum's.

    I'd get on to the finance dept of your local council and ask for an assessment, the contribution will probably be a lot less than you expect.

    Good luck,
  6. KIM62

    KIM62 Registered User

    Apr 12, 2008
    #6 KIM62, Apr 20, 2008
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2008
    Hello Kayleigh
    First you need to get proper legal advice.

    My sister in law is now permanently in a NH.

    12 year ago, her mother was taken into a NH with Alz. The financial situation was this...The home she shared with her mum, was still in her mums name. When her mum went into a NH, she had some savings, which took her over just over the rate for getting any help.
    For 18 months, she paid her own fees, with some help from her daughters savings, because they did not want benefits involved.
    Her mum passed away 18 month later, and then when the Will was read out, the house automatically became the daughters.

    Now, she is in the same circumstances, with Vascular Dementia. She funds herself from her savings, which in our estimation will last for at least 3 year to 5 year, depends how the annual increases go.
    She is only assessed on her savings at the moment, then the sale of the house will have to kick in.

    If her savings run down to the required limit, and she had to be assessed for help. Then they would allow her to stay in care l the property would then be sold, then all fees would be paid, and then she would be back to square one in funding herself, until those funds were down to the bare minimum.
    So, basically savings are assessed first, then property.

    My husband has the power of attorney, and so he will have the decision on when the house is to be sold to start covering costs.
    He was also advized that any money taken out of his sisters bank account, he would be better keeping proof of expenditure, so it looks like he is not spending her money as he could be held liable to pay towards costs.
    You see the Will she made some years ago dividing up her estate throughout the family, is at this moment void.
    Unless, she were to pass away before the house was sold, then the house is still there classed as her estate.
    However, the priority of my sister in law receiving the kind of care she needs, even if it takes all her money, is the most important.
    This allows us peace of mind as well, and that is worth any price that is being paid.

    I wish you strength in coping with these situations, and remember get help and advice where you need it try not to do it all on your own...please.
  7. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    Kayleigh - assuming that what you say is correct and that your parents have a jointly owned house and your mother has savings of less than £21,500, then social services will be paying some part, perhaps all of your mother's fees. The house doesn't count at all as your father is still living there and in this situation it is totally disregarded - fees don't accrue against it or anything. When your mothers savings are between 13000 and 21500 then there is something called tarrif income which is assumed - for each £250 you are assumed to earn £1 per week income (I wish). She will be expected to pay over her state pension, any occupational pension she might have less whatever is the personal allowance currently (I think £20 a week).

    As an example
    Joint saving of £20000 translates into individual savings of £10000 so those savings are ignored
    House ignored
    Payment to be made - any state and occupational pension your mother may have minus £20 (and even the entire occupational pension may not be forfeit).

    This of course ignores any nursing contribution that may be made by the NHS - that may already be factored into the £400 quoted above or may not.
  8. germain

    germain Registered User

    Jul 7, 2007
    Hello kayleigh 999

    Leave your Mum in the NH and **** the cost - that can be sorted out later. Not only can your dad not care for her or himself but the MRSA situation is the same whether she is visited in the CH or she actually goes home - both situations expose her to infection. If she goes home you have neglect on top.

    Does your dad have dementia too or am I reading between the lines too much ? Sounds to me like he needs 24/7 care as well - would it be possible to get them both into somewhere together (once infection clears) Might be an idea too to get an ansaphone re the 20 calls a day ! (with a message saying - if you need help ring my brothers )

    Sometimes you just need to say no and dig your heels in - thats what your dad is doing to manipulate you at the moment ! You've done it once and you can do it again for both their sakes.

    All the best - let us know what happens

  9. Canadian Joanne

    Canadian Joanne Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 8, 2005
    Toronto, Canada
    Originally posted by Germain
    I was thinking exactly the same thing as Germain. Is it possible your father is in early stages of dementia?

    I think you are doing exactly the right thing by keeping your mother in the nursing home. Perhaps you need to not take your mother for a visit for a week or so.

    I think this says it all. Keep your chin up and hang tough. We're all cheering for you.
  10. kayleigh999

    kayleigh999 Registered User

    Apr 6, 2007
    #10 kayleigh999, May 5, 2008
    Last edited: May 5, 2008

    Thank you for the replys. I do apologise in the delay as my PC was in for repair, got 13 big time virus's on it, teenage sons and downloading music I am told by repair company!

    You did all help me and yes it had crossed my mind Dad is in early stages too, his long term memory and intelligence seems intact (ish) yet he has paid a man 70 pounds to do an hour of gardening (kept forgetting he has already paid and yes, man has taken it)

    We are now more well informed. Dad will not have house taken into account as he still lives there and as they have savings less than £13.500 they will be only taking Moms pension and attendance allowance towards the 400 pound fee.

    The social worker went to see Dad and tried to convince him not only to leave Mom where she is but to try to get him to have a carer himself. He point blank refuses and now I am getting so despondant and depressed going every day and cleaning up the house that he gets into a terrible state, dropping everything and leaving where it falls, and cleaning up continually after his frequent double incontinant accidents.The one Brother has said if he wont accept help then walk away from it all but I just cant.

    Anyway up to speed, he goes back in hospital again next week for a skingraft to try to cover the hole as it has healed somewhat. It will be a relief for me as I wont be expecting the phone to ring for the next disiaster or fall or whatever. Sorry if I sound sorry for myself and its not directly a dementia issue but I think sometimes you just need to unload. Thanks for reading/listening/replying and my very best wishes to you all.

  11. Canadian Joanne

    Canadian Joanne Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 8, 2005
    Toronto, Canada
    Hi Kayleigh,

    Please don't take this the wrong way, but perhaps you should ask to have your father assessed for his mental state at the hospital, if possible. Why is he doubly incontinent and obviously doing so everywhere and anywhere? That sounds like he is definitely having some kind of problem. If your brothers don't agree but aren't doing anything to help, ignore them & do what you think is best for the health and safety of your parents.

    Is there a power of attorney already in place? If not, try to get one. Take care of yourself, you have so much on your plate.

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