Sexual abuse?.... what do I do?
- Thread starter carolsea
- Start date
Innocent until proved guilty.....
errr hate to throw the cat among the pidgeons but I see this guy as a potential victim here too. We had a very upsetting experience a few years back in which my son ended up getting arrested (all sorted no charges), and another when we were reported for spreading child porn and were investigated ourselves - we were supposedly creating and distributing it on the web, but didn't even have an internet connection so we were exonerated there too. But it has made me view things in a different way. False accusation whether malicious or as a result of illness can have incredibly serious effects on the accused and the hurt stays long after the accusation is lifted, so I can understand you Mum's neighbour completely. Thats said
if you know where this , guy lives I would speak to him directly, tell him you appreciate his concern, but that you are worried that either there may be some irregularities or that your Mother may be him at risk of accusations etc. Maybe you could suggest that if he is genuinely concerned for her that you meet with him and her social worker so that everyone knows the boundaries etc. Maybe he could be found a very specific role?
I hope you can resolve this
errr hate to throw the cat among the pidgeons but I see this guy as a potential victim here too. We had a very upsetting experience a few years back in which my son ended up getting arrested (all sorted no charges), and another when we were reported for spreading child porn and were investigated ourselves - we were supposedly creating and distributing it on the web, but didn't even have an internet connection so we were exonerated there too. But it has made me view things in a different way. False accusation whether malicious or as a result of illness can have incredibly serious effects on the accused and the hurt stays long after the accusation is lifted, so I can understand you Mum's neighbour completely. Thats said
if you know where this , guy lives I would speak to him directly, tell him you appreciate his concern, but that you are worried that either there may be some irregularities or that your Mother may be him at risk of accusations etc. Maybe you could suggest that if he is genuinely concerned for her that you meet with him and her social worker so that everyone knows the boundaries etc. Maybe he could be found a very specific role?
I hope you can resolve this
But it is different if there is a just cause for concern
There was no just cause in your case but if this man goes around talking to young women like this, then it is a definite worry and young women should not be subject to having to put up with this.
But it is different if there is a just cause for concern
I believe Bristolbelle was referring to the original post from Carol, not Margaret's.
here we go again !
Hi All
Thank you for your interest and concern for Mum.
Just to recap, you'll remember in my original post I mentioned about Mum exagerating things for attention....?
I gave the SW all the details about this neighbour and the previous 'goings on', not all of which I can detail on here for fear of this person being identified and me getting into trouble. I told the SW in Mum's exact words what the neighbour had been saying to her.
So SW goes to see Mum 'for a chat'........
Was evrything OK, was she managing alright, was there anything worrying her, who helped with shopping, housework etc?
Everything is fine says Mum, I don't need any help i can do evrything myself!
But who shops for you since you can't get out?
Oh my neighbour ***** does that for me, says Mum.
And is he OK when he's in the house with you, asks SW.
Oh yes, he's a bit of company says Mum.
SW - Your daughter was worried when he said those things ********** to you.
Mum - He was only joking, he said I should get a boyfriend!
and the social worker left it at that and seems to think Mum still has mental capacity to decide.
Apparently Mum is fine, the neighbour isn't a problem, she doesn't want any help from SS with anything and I'm still worried.
Was she making things up for attention, as she had so often done in the past or is she scared to make accusations against the neighbour, thinking that she'll be taken away and put into a res home or has she simply forgotten what was said by the neighbour?
(Mum is being visited by her GP soon for certificate of mental capacity for POA so we should have a more definite idea of her mental state, I hope!).
Seems there's nothing more I can do and as I don't live nearby I can't keep an eye on the neighbour.
Back to square one, as Mum won't even be getting the once a week 'home from hospital' visits soon, so she'll be completely left to the neighbour again.......
Oh dear, oh dear.
Carol
Hi All
Thank you for your interest and concern for Mum.
Just to recap, you'll remember in my original post I mentioned about Mum exagerating things for attention....?
I gave the SW all the details about this neighbour and the previous 'goings on', not all of which I can detail on here for fear of this person being identified and me getting into trouble. I told the SW in Mum's exact words what the neighbour had been saying to her.
So SW goes to see Mum 'for a chat'........
Was evrything OK, was she managing alright, was there anything worrying her, who helped with shopping, housework etc?
Everything is fine says Mum, I don't need any help i can do evrything myself!
But who shops for you since you can't get out?
Oh my neighbour ***** does that for me, says Mum.
And is he OK when he's in the house with you, asks SW.
Oh yes, he's a bit of company says Mum.
SW - Your daughter was worried when he said those things ********** to you.
Mum - He was only joking, he said I should get a boyfriend!
and the social worker left it at that and seems to think Mum still has mental capacity to decide.
Apparently Mum is fine, the neighbour isn't a problem, she doesn't want any help from SS with anything and I'm still worried.
Was she making things up for attention, as she had so often done in the past or is she scared to make accusations against the neighbour, thinking that she'll be taken away and put into a res home or has she simply forgotten what was said by the neighbour?
(Mum is being visited by her GP soon for certificate of mental capacity for POA so we should have a more definite idea of her mental state, I hope!).
Seems there's nothing more I can do and as I don't live nearby I can't keep an eye on the neighbour.
Back to square one, as Mum won't even be getting the once a week 'home from hospital' visits soon, so she'll be completely left to the neighbour again.......
Oh dear, oh dear.
Carol
Carol, sorry I have not posted before. Having worked with child sex abuse victims and their families this topic often gets me too uppity to be rational. Uppity sometimes in that adult ‘victims’ seem to have to ‘prove’ their allegations whereas for a vulnerable person – who happens to be a child – it is the reverse – the ‘accused’ – as Bristolbelle pointed out seeming to appear ‘guilty until proven innocent’.
That seems injustice but is based on the simple fact a child or young person would have no cognitive idea of sexual inappropriateness (or sexual activity or words)..... the problem with suggestions of sexual abuse in adults – especially those with mental incapacity (not just dementia) - is around delusional/hallucinatory/accusatory/attention seeking (whatever other word) behaviour and distorted memory .....
Giving this neighbour ‘the benefit of the doubt' are you sure he is not innocent? – or just using inappropriate humour to cheer up your mum? We had a wonderful family friend (middle-aged, male, single) who lived around the corner from my parents and always volunteered to help however he could. (Picking up prescriptions/shopping/taxi-ing to hospital appointments etc) After my dad died, he continued to support mum – knowing I was not always immediately ‘on hand’ .... and gave her company, the offer of running errands, general good-heartedness .... yes, for a while I wonder had he held a torch for my mum(!) .... he was one of those who apparently ‘walked away’ when mum’s behaviour became shall we say ‘more bizarre’ ... and I was so sad, but just assumed it was because of her dementia – and indeed it was – but from a different perspective than I had imagined.
It was only around the time of my mother’s funeral another mutual family friend (in whom the neighbour had confided) explained what had been going on some years previously ...... mum’s ‘fabrications’ (best word I can think of) not to mention her rather disinhibited behaviour, language and humour after a lifetime of ‘prudishness’ made him realise he was putting himself into such a vulnerable position and may have been the subject of mum’s accusations he had no earthly chance of proving otherwise were he to continue to be in her company without witnesses!!!!!
That may be one little ‘flea in ear’ approach you could take up directly if you still feel it necessary.
Just one more point (sorry I am rambling) .... protecting our loved ones when we are not with them 24/7 is a huge worry .... you have done the absolute right thing getting a subjective and professional assessment of the situation. Sure, the hint of sexual abuse may be more emotive than ‘can mum turn the cooker on/off?’ ... or ‘can she remember to lock her door?’ .... but maybe has equal weight in terms of managing risk for people trying to live independently with dementia, and those who love them and live with the worry of supporting that independence.
Keep up with it, keep your eye on it .... but try not to let the worry destroy you in the process.
Love, Karen, x
Uppity sometimes in that adult ‘victims’ seem to have to ‘prove’ their allegations whereas for a vulnerable person – who happens to be a child – it is the reverse – the ‘accused’ – as Bristolbelle pointed out seeming to appear ‘guilty until proven innocent’.That seems injustice but is based on the simple fact a child or young person would have no cognitive idea of sexual inappropriateness (or sexual activity or words)..... the problem with suggestions of sexual abuse in adults – especially those with mental incapacity (not just dementia) - is around delusional/hallucinatory/accusatory/attention seeking (whatever other word) behaviour and distorted memory .....
Giving this neighbour ‘the benefit of the doubt' are you sure he is not innocent? – or just using inappropriate humour to cheer up your mum? We had a wonderful family friend (middle-aged, male, single) who lived around the corner from my parents and always volunteered to help however he could. (Picking up prescriptions/shopping/taxi-ing to hospital appointments etc) After my dad died, he continued to support mum – knowing I was not always immediately ‘on hand’ .... and gave her company, the offer of running errands, general good-heartedness .... yes, for a while I wonder had he held a torch for my mum(!) .... he was one of those who apparently ‘walked away’ when mum’s behaviour became shall we say ‘more bizarre’ ... and I was so sad, but just assumed it was because of her dementia – and indeed it was – but from a different perspective than I had imagined.
It was only around the time of my mother’s funeral another mutual family friend (in whom the neighbour had confided) explained what had been going on some years previously ...... mum’s ‘fabrications’ (best word I can think of) not to mention her rather disinhibited behaviour, language and humour after a lifetime of ‘prudishness’ made him realise he was putting himself into such a vulnerable position and may have been the subject of mum’s accusations he had no earthly chance of proving otherwise were he to continue to be in her company without witnesses!!!!!
That may be one little ‘flea in ear’ approach you could take up directly if you still feel it necessary.
Just one more point (sorry I am rambling) .... protecting our loved ones when we are not with them 24/7 is a huge worry .... you have done the absolute right thing getting a subjective and professional assessment of the situation. Sure, the hint of sexual abuse may be more emotive than ‘can mum turn the cooker on/off?’ ... or ‘can she remember to lock her door?’ .... but maybe has equal weight in terms of managing risk for people trying to live independently with dementia, and those who love them and live with the worry of supporting that independence.
Keep up with it, keep your eye on it .... but try not to let the worry destroy you in the process.
Love, Karen, x
Hi Karen
Many thanks for your reassuring approach to the problem.
You are so right, worrying myself to death over the matter isn't going to solve a thing and at the moment there's not a lot more I can do.
Any further developments, I will post again.
Please keep giving all of us 'newbie carers' the benefit of your experience, everyone, it really helps!
Carol
Many thanks for your reassuring approach to the problem.
You are so right, worrying myself to death over the matter isn't going to solve a thing and at the moment there's not a lot more I can do.
Any further developments, I will post again.
Please keep giving all of us 'newbie carers' the benefit of your experience, everyone, it really helps!
Carol
omg I am in the same situation but reversed
Hi Carol,
My dad is the same as your mum meaning that he is 18/30 dimentia. We have had problems where he has had a "29 year old girlfriend" who has ripped him of for thousands of pounds for favours. In the end we had to move him out of his house into warden controlled flats near my brother and sister six weeks ago. Since then he has flashed at two of the occupants of the flats being sexually aroused both times. We now have him on medication to defuse the sexual feelings. The warden of the flats and Social Services have been fantastic as they can see that we are doing everything we can, Ie I am there every day of the week, siblings go in the early evening etc. Tonight I am so tired but tommorow is another day. Have to add that this is totally out of character for my dad. The meds he has been prescribed are hopefullly decreasing his urges. I wish you well xxx
Hi Carol,
My dad is the same as your mum meaning that he is 18/30 dimentia. We have had problems where he has had a "29 year old girlfriend" who has ripped him of for thousands of pounds for favours. In the end we had to move him out of his house into warden controlled flats near my brother and sister six weeks ago. Since then he has flashed at two of the occupants of the flats being sexually aroused both times. We now have him on medication to defuse the sexual feelings. The warden of the flats and Social Services have been fantastic as they can see that we are doing everything we can, Ie I am there every day of the week, siblings go in the early evening etc. Tonight I am so tired but tommorow is another day. Have to add that this is totally out of character for my dad. The meds he has been prescribed are hopefullly decreasing his urges
. I wish you well xxxHi Susanne
Sounds like you are doing a wonderful job for your dad - well done. It must be so difficult to see a parent behave in that way.I haven't actually witnessed that sort of behaviour with my mum, but then she sees hardly anyone but us and the dodgy neighbour.Don't think we'll ever know if the allegations were true or all in her mind.
I wish I lived close enough to Mum to be able to visit like you do, but that's just not possible with her being so far away from us. She flatly refuses to live near us (we have got as far as viewing properties several times over the last 10 years or so and even as far as making an offer, but she always throws a strop at the last minute), doesn't want to go into res care and we can't up sticks to be near her due to work, daughter at local college, son needs help with his business sometimes, etc etc.
I phone her every day. Sometimes she seems OK and other days, like today, she is tearful, doesn't know what day it is, couldn't understand why her hot dinner hadn't arrived (it was 10 am!)etc.
Social services seem to catch her on her better days ( or more likely don't want to see the problem) and aren't interested in helping so I've arranged for a private warden to start visiting every morning. With that and the meal delivery at lunchtime at least I know she is being checked up on twice a day.She also now has a 'panic alarm' that she is supposed to wear around her neck - whether she actually always wears it is another matter!
We are going to see her again this weekend and no doubt will spend hours talking about the same issues and getting nowhere!
Hope things get better for you with your dad on the meds.
Remember to take some time for yourself now and again and don't feel guilty about doing so, or you won't be any use to your dad or anyone else....
Take care
Carol
Sounds like you are doing a wonderful job for your dad - well done
. It must be so difficult to see a parent behave in that way.I haven't actually witnessed that sort of behaviour with my mum, but then she sees hardly anyone but us and the dodgy neighbour.Don't think we'll ever know if the allegations were true or all in her mind.I wish I lived close enough to Mum to be able to visit like you do, but that's just not possible with her being so far away from us. She flatly refuses to live near us (we have got as far as viewing properties several times over the last 10 years or so and even as far as making an offer, but she always throws a strop at the last minute), doesn't want to go into res care and we can't up sticks to be near her due to work, daughter at local college, son needs help with his business sometimes, etc etc.
I phone her every day. Sometimes she seems OK and other days, like today, she is tearful, doesn't know what day it is, couldn't understand why her hot dinner hadn't arrived (it was 10 am!)etc.
Social services seem to catch her on her better days ( or more likely don't want to see the problem) and aren't interested in helping so I've arranged for a private warden to start visiting every morning. With that and the meal delivery at lunchtime at least I know she is being checked up on twice a day.She also now has a 'panic alarm' that she is supposed to wear around her neck - whether she actually always wears it is another matter!
We are going to see her again this weekend and no doubt will spend hours talking about the same issues and getting nowhere!
Hope things get better for you with your dad on the meds.
Remember to take some time for yourself now and again and don't feel guilty about doing so, or you won't be any use to your dad or anyone else....
Take care
Carol
Thanks for replying Carol I really appreciate it. I am so glad I found this site. It seems that his behaviour is not something that people have heard of in dimentia now I am really confused. The meds that he is having are making him tired and spaced out and I dont know if this is good or not.
A peace of good news it turns out althought the first episode was found to be true the second one does not ring true so hopefully that will work in dad's favour. Like I said before that is so not his nature.
I am trawling the internet to find out if what I am doing is right or there is more that I could be doing but find such conflicting advice.
take care carol
xx
A peace of good news it turns out althought the first episode was found to be true the second one does not ring true so hopefully that will work in dad's favour. Like I said before that is so not his nature.
I am trawling the internet to find out if what I am doing is right or there is more that I could be doing but find such conflicting advice.
take care carol
xx
Suzanne - while not trying to second guess the professionals you have been dealing with, I have to say, it's not the first time I've heard of something like this. Sometimes, yes it can be due to a hightened sexuality, more often it's due loss of inhibition; loss of learned behaviours about what is or is not appropriate; complete obliviousness to anyone else being around. Think of a small boy: they are often touching themselves, piddling in inappropriate places, you name it (I had a boy - I know about this). Eventually they learn when it is or is not appropriate. What you may well be dealing with here is the reverse - your father is (about this issue) becoming more like a small child.
Also, some types of dementia may be more likely to produce such symptoms -fronto temporal lobe dementia for one.
The fact sheet "unusual behaviour" has a section about this http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?categoryID=200200&documentID=159
Also, some types of dementia may be more likely to produce such symptoms -fronto temporal lobe dementia for one.
The fact sheet "unusual behaviour" has a section about this http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?categoryID=200200&documentID=159
My dad has vascular dementia and last year he suddenly became very interested in sex. It was very embarrassing to see that he had bought himself copies of The Joy of Sex, and even worse Sex for One! (Yes, it is exactly what you think) And even worse, because he'd stopped worrying about those little conventions like paying for the books you've ordered, I ended up paying for them to stop the debt collectors turning up on his doorstep. Well you've got to laugh, haven't you! And it's not even a story you can share at work. So, yes it is something I've come across, but it's not something you share in polite company. Not that I spend much time in polite company, but I can imagine it would kill the conversation stone dead, "My Dad's new hobby is buying porn, you know". Not a lot you can say to that really.
And there's a man in Dad's NH with frontal lobe dementia who is very disinhibited and has to go to his room at set times in the day so as not to upset the other residents.
And there's a man in Dad's NH with frontal lobe dementia who is very disinhibited and has to go to his room at set times in the day so as not to upset the other residents.
