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Selling mums home

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
11,392
South coast
OK, I know what to do, but Im a wimp, so please be gentle with me
Ive got to sell mums home and I have CoP and Ive had 3 estate agents in to give me valuations.
The problem is mums friend - not that she herself is a problem, she is lovely and has done so much for mum over the years that I do not know what I do without her. She is practically family.
This friend had previously expressed the wish to buy mums home after she died and at one point mum was thinking of leaving her the bungalow in her will. I know that mum wanted her to have it after she was gone. I dont know if she actually did and I know that it makes no difference anyway as she is still alive. The friend has again said that she would like mums bungalow, but having had the valuations done I know that she does not have enough cash :( If mum had died I would just waive the difference and sell it to her anyway, but I know that I cant because of the CoP and deprivation of assets.
The friend cant get a mortgage to cover the difference and although she has said she would rent it wouldnt cover mums CH fees and although it would make mums capital last longer there is the risk that if mum survives long enough I would have to sell the home anyway - which would make the friend homeless. I have even contemplated lending her the difference as personal loan, but it would take her 10 years to repay it

The long and short of it is that I cant see any way of implementing mums wishes in this matter and Im going to have to tell the friend this ..............

I feel such a heel and dont know how to tell her.
 

2jays

Registered User
Jun 4, 2010
11,598
West Midlands
As if life isn't difficult enough....

What an awful situation for you

I guess it's a "bite the bullet moment" and just get on and tell them... :(

Oh what an awful awful #%<~>~ disease this is, that causes so many other problems xxxxxxx


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nitram

Registered User
Apr 6, 2011
19,739
North Manchester
You have to tell her the truth, it has to be sold at market value otherwise you will be in trouble with both the COP and the LA.

Houses rarely sell at the Estate Agent's valuation, sometimes it's far less, some Agents make a high valuation to attract the vendor.

If you go to
http://houseprices.landregistry.gov.uk/
you can see what nearby houses have actually sold for, leave a space between the two parts of the postcode or it won't work.
 

2jays

Registered User
Jun 4, 2010
11,598
West Midlands
For my address area, it seems to me that the site isn't up to date. More houses have sold since the last one mentioned


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Isabella41

Registered User
Feb 20, 2012
904
Northern Ireland
I think you will have to be very honest with your mum's friend. Even if your mum had made a will and left the house to this friend its immaterial as the care home fees have to be paid. However as others have said estate agents do tend to overvalue houses. Would it be worth telling your mum's friend what the valuation is and letting her decide if she could put a bid in. We bought our house £20k less than what is was on the market for so its possible this friend may be able to afford it. Nothing ventured nothing gained has always been my motto.
I don't know what the value of this personal loan that you've mooted would be but i'd strongly counsel against this unless you can afford to loose this money. If the friend couldn't pay you would loose the lot.
Its a horrible dilemma to be in but your hands are tied and I am sure this friend will understand as she sounds lovely.
 

cragmaid

Registered User
Oct 18, 2010
7,942
North East England
Hi, does the house "have" to be sold now. Is Mum's capital down to the bare bones? ( Not being nosey honestly) Could your friend not rent the place at rental market price and perhaps help with the shortfall? My Mum was in a CH for just shy of three years and her LA deferred payment was not subject to a time restraint..I know the LA/CH funding regulations changed and I don't know if the rules were altered. Just a thought..:)
 

Witzend

Registered User
Aug 29, 2007
4,291
SW London
The LR claim to update 'in full each month'

http://landregistry.data.gov.uk/
As well to bear in mind that all these figures are usually 2 to 3 months in arrears - i.e. figures added just now will probably reflect COMPLETIONS in March or April, and will this probably reflect AGREED prices 2-3 months before that. So if the local market has picked up or dropped a bit it may not be 100% reflected in latest figures.

The LR time lag is a bit of a pain for nosy people like me who like to know what nearby houses sold for!
 

Spamar

Registered User
Oct 5, 2013
7,030
Suffolk
Something similar when my father died. One of my cousins would like his car, which wasnt worth a fortune. He had to buy it though I would have gladly given it to him.
 
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daisydi

Registered User
Feb 25, 2015
255
Norfolk
I would put it on the market. See if any offers come through and tell your friend that she has first refusal if the offers are on the low side and she may possibly be able to afford it. You can only do your best. It depends what the shortfall is and how much someone else is prepared to pay for it.
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
11,392
South coast
It is a horrible situation
I dont think I would have any trouble selling mums home at the market value. House prices here are going up quite steadily - hence the reason that the friend now has a shortfall.
Cragmaid - I dont actually need to sell it right now, but I will have to within the next 12 months. I hadnt thought of deferred payment, but again, depending on how long she lives the CH fees might swallow up pretty much the whole of the value of the house, so that I couldnt sell at a reduced rate. Depending on house prices at the time, of course.

Oh how I wish I had that crystal ball :rolleyes:

I just dont know what to say to mums friend or how to broach the subject. I feel sick every time I think about it and I feel Im letting both mum and her friend down although I know its only the guilt monster :( Anyone got any handy monster traps?
 

Isabella41

Registered User
Feb 20, 2012
904
Northern Ireland
Canary. You are most definetly not letting anyone down. The system is forcing you to sell the house to pay for your mum's care. Please don't feel guilty as you're not doing anything wrong or underhand.
 

Pickles53

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
2,474
Radcliffe on Trent
Blame the CoP as much as you want to. A true friend will absolutely understand that you can't break the law and wouldn't want you to do so. She should also understand the importance of your mum having as much capital as possible so that this is not a constraint on where she lives. (People have often expressed concern on TP about a relative having to move to a less expensive home if their money runs out and LA funding is needed.)

It's not in the long term helpful to your friend to encourage her to take on a property she can't afford either. If she was certain that her financial situation would improve enough to repay a loan in 12 months it might be an option, but even then I would be very wary of getting involved in a financial transaction with a friend. Sadly sometimes things don't work out and if she couldn't repay there would be further embarrassment and awkwardness on both sides.

I think your only option is to see what happens when the property is put on the market. If you don't get offers at or close to asking price within a reasonable time frame then she might be able to make an offer which you could demonstrate was the best you could achieve. If you go down this route, make sure that your estate agent puts all offers in writing so you can show you made the effort to get the highest price you could.
 
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canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
11,392
South coast
Yes, I know what I have to do, but it is so hard.
Im finding everything to do with mums home hard. Ive got to clear it too. Its only stuff and most of it is going to charity, but I go there and remember who gave her things, where it all came from and why mum kept it. She has practically no memory now and doesnt recognise any of her things so it feels like her home and contents are the only things keeping mums memory. As I get rid of stuff it feels like I am wiping her away and I just sit down and cry.
 

Witzend

Registered User
Aug 29, 2007
4,291
SW London
Yes, I know what I have to do, but it is so hard.
Im finding everything to do with mums home hard. Ive got to clear it too. Its only stuff and most of it is going to charity, but I go there and remember who gave her things, where it all came from and why mum kept it. She has practically no memory now and doesnt recognise any of her things so it feels like her home and contents are the only things keeping mums memory. As I get rid of stuff it feels like I am wiping her away and I just sit down and cry.
It's horrible, isn't it? I think it's almost worse clearing someone's house while they are still alive, than after someone has died. You feel as if you are throwing their life away. I kept some daft things, like a really old wooden spoon she'd had for ever. Like your mum, mine didn't recognise her own things any more. We took several items to her room in the care home, but they meant nothing to her any more. I suppose we should take comfort from that in a way - how much worse if they were aware and knew you were having to get rid of all their things.
 

Pickles53

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
2,474
Radcliffe on Trent
Yes, I know what I have to do, but it is so hard.
Im finding everything to do with mums home hard. Ive got to clear it too. Its only stuff and most of it is going to charity, but I go there and remember who gave her things, where it all came from and why mum kept it. She has practically no memory now and doesnt recognise any of her things so it feels like her home and contents are the only things keeping mums memory. As I get rid of stuff it feels like I am wiping her away and I just sit down and cry.
It can be very hard, but I'm sure you will not lose the memories that really matter. Why not take some photos which are easy to keep? I only kept a few things from mum's house like the vase which had belonged to her mother, because I knew I would use it too. After Dad died, mum used to say she didn't need stuff to remember him by, he was in her heart, and that's how I feel too. Once I knew she wouldn't ever go back to her house, I didn't want to spend any more time there either. I wanted to spend time with her, not with her possessions.
 

chrisdee

Registered User
Nov 23, 2014
171
Yorkshire
I think that all sorts of unanticipated problems might rear up by selling to someone you know well. Sometimes we think that we know all the circumstances but we don't, when the chips are down. Stand firm and let her down firmly and kindly. If property is in demand in your area, you might get a cash buyer making it simple all-round. Stuff is much easier to deal with in the summer than the winter isn't it? Also, you need to raise as much as you can to make your own position easier. Please try to lower you own stress levels rather than 'I should have' etc.