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Selling house when joint POA wont sign

Nellie12345

New member
Jul 3, 2022
5
0
Hello everyone, it's been a tough 12 months. Mum's deterioration has led to constant battles with the LA, who were happy to provide awful care. Anyway, I took a stand and have placed mum in care. I have financial POA with my brother jointly and severally, he still wants mum to stay at home. He has anger issues and the Office of the POA has applied to the courts as they feel he is unfit to act on mums behalf. I need to sell the house to fund mums care, but he won't sign. The court process could take sometime. Im getting lots of conflicting advise, has anyone been in a similar situation? On a positive note, mum has had her hair washed for the first time in 5 months and she seems content. That's all I wanted.
 

Jessbow

Registered User
Mar 1, 2013
4,341
0
Midlands
although you are listed as Joint and several, a solicitor would want the consent of the other attorney to act in a big a transaction as a house sale.

Can you imagine the hoo-ha if the sale was close to completion and the other atorney suddenly said no? The solicitor wont take that chance
 

GillP

Registered User
Aug 11, 2021
1,735
0
Hello everyone, it's been a tough 12 months. Mum's deterioration has led to constant battles with the LA, who were happy to provide awful care. Anyway, I took a stand and have placed mum in care. I have financial POA with my brother jointly and severally, he still wants mum to stay at home. He has anger issues and the Office of the POA has applied to the courts as they feel he is unfit to act on mums behalf. I need to sell the house to fund mums care, but he won't sign. The court process could take sometime. Im getting lots of conflicting advise, has anyone been in a similar situation? On a positive note, mum has had her hair washed for the first time in 5 months and she seems content. That's all I wanted.
So pleased to read that your Mum has settled. That must be a relief.

It’s a pity that your brother does not realise that residential care is better for your Mum. Has he said who he thinks should look after her if she’s at home? Has he helped thus far?
 

Nellie12345

New member
Jul 3, 2022
5
0
So pleased to read that your Mum has settled. That must be a relief.

It’s a pity that your brother does not realise that residential care is better for your Mum. Has he said who he thinks should look after her if she’s at home? Has he helped thus far?
The relief seeing her comfortable is huge. My brother feels that he can look after mum. That's why she hadn't had her hair washed in 5 months. I've had to fight to get a carer in at home. The LA thought it was ok for mum to stay in an incontinence pad for 13 hours at a time! So did my brother! Carers refused to go in the house because of his aggressive attitude.
 

Nellie12345

New member
Jul 3, 2022
5
0
although you are listed as Joint and several, a solicitor would want the consent of the other attorney to act in a big a transaction as a house sale.

Can you imagine the hoo-ha if the sale was close to completion and the other atorney suddenly said no? The solicitor wont take that chance
I just might have to wait for the slow moving court process.
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
18,897
0
South coast
While you are waiting for the court process, I wonder whether you would be able to get a deferred payment agreement on the house with the Local Authority? I dont know whether your brother would needs to sign it too, but it might be worth checking it out

I didnt realise that your brother was living with your mum and was her carer. This may make things more complicated.
 

Nellie12345

New member
Jul 3, 2022
5
0
I just might have to wait for the slow moving court process.

While you are waiting for the court process, I wonder whether you would be able to get a deferred payment agreement on the house with the Local Authority? I dont know whether your brother would needs to sign it too, but it might be worth checking it out

I didnt realise that your brother was living with your mum and was her carer. This may make things more complicated.
He wasn't living with her. He just kept going round and upsetting the apple cart . He has his own accomodation. I had paid for carers, on top of those provided by LA.
 

nitram

Registered User
Apr 6, 2011
25,514
0
North Manchester
From what you have said it appears that the OPG have investigated and are applying to the COP for him to be removed as LPA presumable leaving you as sole attorney hopefully with express permission to sell the house.
There is little you can do to speed up this process.

I also think that there is a case for the LA to discretionally disregard the house in any financial assessment, if it does it may also urge the court legal system.


You will just have to be patient and wait for the sale of the house.
Keep a documented record of all expenses you have paid on your mother's care and reclaim them from the proceeds of the house sale.
 

Nellie12345

New member
Jul 3, 2022
5
0
From what you have said it appears that the OPG have investigated and are applying to the COP for him to be removed as LPA presumable leaving you as sole attorney hopefully with express permission to sell the house.
There is little you can do to speed up this process.

I also think that there is a case for the LA to discretionally disregard the house in any financial assessment, if it does it may also urge the court legal system.


You will just have to be patient and wait for the sale of the house.
Keep a documented record of all expenses you have paid on your mother's care and reclaim them from the proceeds of the house sale.
Thank you. I knew it would be difficult, but mum is being cared for now. When I contacted the office of the POA, they could not offer any timeline. Thanks all for the feedback.
 

Shedrech

Volunteer Moderator
Dec 15, 2012
12,494
0
Yorkshire
He'll @Nellie12345
A warm welcome to DTP

This may help re paying for care

Esp ....

Deferred payment agreements​

By taking out a deferred payment agreement (DPA), you can ‘defer’ paying the costs of your care home until a later date. The local authority provides funding as a loan but it must be repaid when the property is sold.

An important change brought in by the Care Act is that local authorities can now charge arrangement fees to set up the loan. They can also charge interest on the loan from the day it is set up.

The Care Act states that all local authorities must operate a deferred payment scheme and offer deferred payments to people meeting the criteria for the scheme. A DPA must be offered to you if your property offers adequate security and if:

  • your needs are to be met in a care home
  • you have less than the upper capital limit (£23,250), excluding the value of your home
  • your home is not occupied by a spouse or dependent relative.
 

Carolann1627

New member
Nov 27, 2020
1
0
I hope you can get it sorted.
My mum went into a home in March , her property had been empty during Covid as she had been living with me.
As the property was expensive to run empty and deteriorating my daughter recently moved in there and i have suggested she buys her grandma's share as no one else would be interested in buying half a house.
There is a DOLS in place now so mum won't be able to live anywhere other than the care home.
I need to apply for permission from the court of protection to sell mum's share in her property to my daughter in order to release the money to pay the care fees.
I have an LPA for property and finance but apparently I still need to apply to COP for permission to sell mum's share.
COP said I need to appoint a trustee to act on mum's behalf as that can't be me (even with the LPA)
I just don't seem to be able to find a solicitor who understands it and can help with completing the 5 forms required.
I'm glad i didn't just try to sell it and then find out i needed a court order. The solicitor didn't know anything about it until i showed them the land registry title deed.
On a positive note, my mum has really settled in, is properly cared for and I have actually started sleeping at night.
I just wish I could sort the financial side of it.
Does anyone have experience of applying to appoint a trustee? Did you have to complete form COP3 as I rang COP and have been given conflicting information.
i understand i have to do forms COP1, 1d, 12 and 24
 

Knitandpurl

Registered User
Aug 9, 2021
214
0
Lincolnshire
The relief seeing her comfortable is huge. My brother feels that he can look after mum. That's why she hadn't had her hair washed in 5 months. I've had to fight to get a carer in at home. The LA thought it was ok for mum to stay in an incontinence pad for 13 hours at a time! So did my brother! Carers refused to go in the house because of his aggressive attitude.
Seems the incontinence pad thing is common - I have found out from my Mum’s Home that she is only provided with 4 pads a day by the District Nurse team, and this is the norm. I would be interested to know if this is just our District or a national thing (I am in Lincs), because its disgraceful, it’s no wonder they all have one UTI after another, and where is the dignity in this. Pads are often not only wet but slightly dirty too as Mum has a ‘dodgy’ bowel. I am taking in night time Kotex pads for her to wear inside her pads to see if this works. (The Home’s suggestion as a cheaper option than providing additional pads - the problem with providing additional pads is that the care staff are constantly ‘borrowing’ pads from other residents and we could end up providing for the whole Home.)
 

thistlejak

Registered User
Jun 6, 2020
274
0
@Carolann1627 - we did Trustee application after being granted Deputyship for MIL & FIL - long story as to why we couldn't get it with first application. We only had to fill in COP 1,1d,12 & 24 as you have said BUT there was a COP3 on file for both of them from the original application.
As far as I am aware you don't have to prove lack of capacity to action POA so that might be why COP3 has been mentioned.
I would suggest that you email COP and get the question and answer in writing that way you have something to refer back to. If you are missing anything out it will only delay the process not cost you any more to the courts.
Don't have the person wanting to buy it be the trustee as that is the same 'conflict of interests' that you are up against at the moment.
Hope this helps a bit.
 

Grancan1313

Registered User
Jun 8, 2017
75
0
Hi I have been through a similar Situation. You don’t actually need the Other attorney to sign when joint and several. I had my other POA sell the house and try to exclude me completely I managed to force my way in on the sale in order to get sale details and money details etc. however when I sought legal advice I was told the other POA can sign and she could have asked a relative to sign A trust deed on behalf of my dad. This surprised me but it was true.