Self funding - now what?
- Thread starter sue_ellen
- Start date
Attendance allowance £82.30 a week for the higher amount and it's not means tested, if they pay council tax they are eligible for exemption.
My mum is self funding and wouldn't go to any day centres or clubs but definitely look into them. Contact your local authority or Alzheimers society for lists of local clubs. Good luck xx
My mum is self funding and wouldn't go to any day centres or clubs but definitely look into them. Contact your local authority or Alzheimers society for lists of local clubs. Good luck xx
You can still qualify for help through SS e.g. Carers, day care for which you pay a minimum. Local Community Meals (not sure if subsidised but very good value). Also voluntary befriending services from Alzheimer's Society and Carers Trust. Once my parents moved into CH they pay full care fees though still in receipt of attendance allowance. Hope that helps and good luck, I hope you are able to get good help in place. Gx
Hate to say it, but I suspect it depends on the area and all you can do is ask. It's one of my major grumbles... that self-funders still need advice and support, but all too often seem to be left to their own devices once the financial situation is realised.
Lorna is right about the attendance allowance. My dad is self-funding and gets the full rate, so that may be your first plan of attack if you haven't already. And I would still speak to the social care and mental health teams to see what is available (assessments and other services). I found AgeUK a good source of information
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Lorna is right about the attendance allowance. My dad is self-funding and gets the full rate, so that may be your first plan of attack if you haven't already. And I would still speak to the social care and mental health teams to see what is available (assessments and other services). I found AgeUK a good source of information
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LA funded don't get any help either other than obviously the care is paid for and without a top up that's usually a choice of one place. There's nothing I know of that's available to self funders that is available to LA funded.
I think it's a bit of a myth that self funders are missing out on something, what "advise and support" did I get from the LA...well none. If I were old and infirmed then maybe the social services would have offered some help as I'm not other than agreeing they would fund the care they did nothing.
Back on topic, I don't understand the question. "So dad is self funding" and what, is he about to go into care, needing help at home, is he already in care?
Social Services have to do an assessment if you ask, irrespective of who's paying, see what they advise.
K
I have to take issue with you on that Kevini. My husband before his death was self funding and was never assessed. ss first question was did he have assets above the limit. Their second action was well here's the list of care agencies, start phoning. I have been told that things are different now, but I can assure you that in my experience self funders receive no advice, guidance , help or anything else and that includes from voluntary bodies. If you don't do everything yourself you are thrashing around in the dark. It is not a myth, they are missing out in some areas, others of course may be better.
This is something that I am very passionate about. Nobody should be left entirely alone just because they have saved all their lives for their old age and be treated like they don't matter.
For self funders residential care is much the same everywhere, the person can get AA but beyond that usually nothing more than a list of placements. In theory the person should be assessed by SS to decided the level of care needed, in practise it's quite often left to the carer to sort out a home.
Other care varies enormously. In my area, if approved by SS, day care is free to all, transport to day care is means tested, and everybody pays for meals at the centre. An adjacent borough, still in Greater Manchester, charges £30/day plus extra for transport both means tested.
You have to ask your LA what is available.
Other care varies enormously. In my area, if approved by SS, day care is free to all, transport to day care is means tested, and everybody pays for meals at the centre. An adjacent borough, still in Greater Manchester, charges £30/day plus extra for transport both means tested.
You have to ask your LA what is available.
I'm assuming you've talked to the local carers' organisation (in Suffolk we have Suffolk Family Carers) I think there is Carers Bucks in your county but don't know if that's where you Dad lives. They should be able to give you a good idea of what local services there are, how you access them, costs etc. They may have helpful literature, training courses and so on and help you with a way in to statutory services. There may also be an integrated dementia support team within the NHS (ours accepts direct referrals as well as from the NHS) and they've been very helpful in terms of getting small things like a handrail outside the dooor, would have arranged to put in rails in the bathroom (although we'd already done that) and small items of equipment for my mother and referrals to OT and physio. She will also be self-funding when the need arises for her to move from living with us. I applied for AA earlier this year and got it; you also might want to check out any reductions in Council Tax - there are various threads on here about the exemption for people with severe mental impairment; we have a smaall reduction as my mother has exclusive use of a room downstairs (she can no longer get upstairs) and we have put a small bathroom for her downstairs - this allows us to pay council tax one band below our assessed value. All the best and hope you find some support and help. If not, just come back to TP - I'm not very knowledgeable but lots of people are and will give you lots of support, point you in the right direction and be 'friends' in need. Sue
I don't understand why a self funder 'should in theory be assessed by SS to decide the level of care needed'.
How can a SW who may well never have met the person before, and will very likely be meeting them in best 'hostess mode', possibly know what care is needed better than family who see them all the time?
We never involved SS at all, for either my mother or my FiL, and after all I've read on here I am very glad we didn't have to. Especially when it seems that not all SWs have much of a clue about dementia.
We knew perfectly well what our parents' needs were.
We approached SS for guidance knowing that my parents were self funding.
Social worker called to say we had been given to her, she arranged to come to the house a fortnight later.
Dad during this time said he was having no carers coming into his home (I now think he was trying to manipulate me into continuing to do distance caring) mum had no idea what was going on.
When it got closer to the day/date of the visit I realised that the 2 did not match, could not confirm which was correct, but in the end she came at a totally different day. Said she could only give us some paper work to read which included some firms which could do caring.
Shall I say she didn't get offered a drink and left in a hurry once a care home was mentioned.
Self funding to me is the polite way of saying do it yourself to families of PWD
Social worker called to say we had been given to her, she arranged to come to the house a fortnight later.
Dad during this time said he was having no carers coming into his home (I now think he was trying to manipulate me into continuing to do distance caring) mum had no idea what was going on.
When it got closer to the day/date of the visit I realised that the 2 did not match, could not confirm which was correct, but in the end she came at a totally different day. Said she could only give us some paper work to read which included some firms which could do caring.
Shall I say she didn't get offered a drink and left in a hurry once a care home was mentioned.
Self funding to me is the polite way of saying do it yourself to families of PWD
I live in Bucks and when SS found out she would be self funding, all we got was a list of CH and more or less got told to get on with it. My Mum at the time was already getting the high rate of AA. I got the impression that they were not interested as she was self funding. The only intervention from SS was that my Mum needed nursing care rather than CH and that they would pay the additional £150 towards the NH costs.
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Kevinl, I appreciate your comment - I don't have experience of LA funded situations, only self-funding ones. So I guess I shouldn't assume that LA funded get more help from SS, but I do know what happened in my dad's case.
Dad worked hard and took care of his finances and I certainly don't begrudge it being used on high quality care now that he's elderly and has dementia. But SS were helping quite happily (meetings, decision making, advice etc) until it was realised he was self-funding. We were dropped almost immediately. No suggestions regarding future care, no advice about potential care homes. No assessment. His SW was reassigned and we were left to deal with everything (all the phone calls, dealing with the mental health team, finding out about care facilities and so on). Talk about stress!
Now we're in a similar situation with other, more distant, relatives and although SS have got as far as an assessment, once the couple were found to be self-funding the SW was immediately withdrawn. These relatives are 90 years old with various disabilities and live alone with no close relatives to help them. But that hasn't been taken into account - only the finances have.
As it's been said many times, the system seems broken to me... too little coordination, and too many complications
Dad worked hard and took care of his finances and I certainly don't begrudge it being used on high quality care now that he's elderly and has dementia. But SS were helping quite happily (meetings, decision making, advice etc) until it was realised he was self-funding. We were dropped almost immediately. No suggestions regarding future care, no advice about potential care homes. No assessment. His SW was reassigned and we were left to deal with everything (all the phone calls, dealing with the mental health team, finding out about care facilities and so on). Talk about stress!
Now we're in a similar situation with other, more distant, relatives and although SS have got as far as an assessment, once the couple were found to be self-funding the SW was immediately withdrawn. These relatives are 90 years old with various disabilities and live alone with no close relatives to help them. But that hasn't been taken into account - only the finances have.
As it's been said many times, the system seems broken to me... too little coordination, and too many complications
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A positive experience
I think the situation must differ greatly from one area to another. We found SS extremely helpful, and from the outset when a care assessment was done, it was clear that my folks would be self funding (but for care services delivered into the home. This wasn't a barrier to getting services in place for them, delivered by SS. They were very joined up with the rest of the Memory Clinic team too. They were also helpful in providing details of care homes, initially for respite and then for a permanent move. Although not without its difficulties, I couldn't praise them highly enough. It's very sad that the experience could be so different around the country. Gx
I think the situation must differ greatly from one area to another. We found SS extremely helpful, and from the outset when a care assessment was done, it was clear that my folks would be self funding (but for care services delivered into the home. This wasn't a barrier to getting services in place for them, delivered by SS. They were very joined up with the rest of the Memory Clinic team too. They were also helpful in providing details of care homes, initially for respite and then for a permanent move. Although not without its difficulties, I couldn't praise them highly enough. It's very sad that the experience could be so different around the country. Gx
My wife spent 6 months under a section 3 in a secure assessment unit so the LA had to fund her aftercare. Because of this a social worker had to be appointed as part of the "team" as she was in the care of the state. I met the social worker twice, once at a best interests meeting when she turned up halfway through and said nothing said nothing. When my wife was ready to move on the social worker sent me a list of homes and told me to visit them and pick one and gave me the figure they would pay.
The second time we met was 6 weeks after my wife moved in to see that everything was working out in the home so she could close the file.
By law they have to do an assessment if you request one, if you phone them and they fob you off then they're acting illegally Care Act 2014 section 9, paragraph 3 says:
(3) The duty to carry out a needs assessment applies regardless of the authority’s view of—
(a) the level of the adult’s needs for care and support, or
(b) the level of the adult’s financial resources."
They have a duty to carry out the assessment irrespective of financial resources.
K
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2014/23/section/9/enacted
The second time we met was 6 weeks after my wife moved in to see that everything was working out in the home so she could close the file.
By law they have to do an assessment if you request one, if you phone them and they fob you off then they're acting illegally Care Act 2014 section 9, paragraph 3 says:
(3) The duty to carry out a needs assessment applies regardless of the authority’s view of—
(a) the level of the adult’s needs for care and support, or
(b) the level of the adult’s financial resources."
They have a duty to carry out the assessment irrespective of financial resources.
K
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2014/23/section/9/enacted
So far we have had 7 social workers and the amount and quality of help they have provided has varied greatly. The first was shockingly negligent, didn't listen to a word that was said to him, gave me the wrong information and said 'it didn't matter if my parents got a bit smelly'. The 3rd one was really helpful. The 4th only seemed to be about saving money. The 7th comes across as unhelpful but is actually trying really hard to make things happen.
My experience, unfortunately, is that they are a very mixed bunch and the quality of help you get whether you are self funding or not, depends on the personality of the social worker and by how much their budget has been cut.
My experience, unfortunately, is that they are a very mixed bunch and the quality of help you get whether you are self funding or not, depends on the personality of the social worker and by how much their budget has been cut.
The memory clinic arranged meetings after the diagnosis with the local Alzheimer's society manger to talk about things like Attendance allowance, carer's allowance, various dayu centres and clubs and sources of hlep with care. We also saw someone else connected with the clinic who talked about health matters - I threw that paperwork away in a fit of reducing the paper mountain. The memory clinic had a whole load of leaflets one could pick up giving details of various charities and other sources of help. Our town council offered a telecare service and we also have an "action for carers" who are helpful. I found one service would tell you about the others. The county council published a book of care agencies and care homes - it was out of date and some agencies said they could offer care in this area, but when I phoned, they couldn't but it was a start.
Google turns up these people who may be able to give you some pointers:
http://www.carersbucks.org/
http://www.carerstrustthames.org.uk/
http://www.dementiaaction.org.uk/lo... Try googling carers and your town name too.
Google turns up these people who may be able to give you some pointers:
http://www.carersbucks.org/
http://www.carerstrustthames.org.uk/
http://www.dementiaaction.org.uk/lo... Try googling carers and your town name too.
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