1. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,437
    I wouldn't start panicking yet. There is a very wide range of homes (and people working and running them) out there. My mother's nursing home was able to give me assurances that she would not be moved even if the money did run out - they had a contract with the LA so that wasn't an issue. Really it's not all doom and gloom. And some carers are absolutely wonderful. So, as I said, don't panic.
     
  2. BeverleyY

    BeverleyY Registered User

    Jan 29, 2008
    716
    Ashford, Kent
    My sister works in a residential home, and she tells me that the staff are very nice there to all the residents.

    However, she then tells me about the woman found dead and stone cold that had obviously not been checked on for hours. She told me about the swift meeting called between management & care staff - she assumes to 'straighten' stories. My sister is not a member of the care staff, I hasten to add.

    I guess I need to do my research and homework long before we get anywhere near the need for a NH. The two local to me are both privately run by chains.

    Aaargh. Why why why.

    Beverley
     
  3. CraigC

    CraigC Registered User

    Mar 21, 2003
    6,630
    London
    Beverley,

    My intention was not to shock and sorry, sincerly. It is just the case of finding the right home and whether or not the home is private or charitable trust etc keeping an eye on things and getting clarity. All I ever try and put across is how important it is to ask the right questions of people who deal with care and how important it is to get clarity.

    Perhaps I got a little political, it is just my my own frustration at the system, sorry. I really never meant to make you sick or scare anyone.

    Generally there are some pretty brilliant care homes and I stand by this.

    If you want any advice on finding care homes feel free to PM me or ask specific questions here. All I can do is give my experience, but it is never my intention to scare anyone, sorry.

    On a positive note, I really have met some incredibly special people involved in care - it is rare for people to do get involved in caring if they just don't care. Deeply special people who have changed my life.

    Kindest Regards
    Craig
     
  4. connie

    connie Registered User

    Mar 7, 2004
    9,519
    Frinton-on-Sea
    I have only just found out that some of the 'residents' in Lionel's present home are being funded from their LA, albeit with a 'top up' from members of family.

    In fact, these said residents are from a neighbouring county.
    It gives me hope that maybe, just maybe, something will be able to be worked out for Lionel when his monies run out.

    As his condition worsens, but stabilises, this is now my biggest nightmare. Oh for a win on the Premium Bonds......and no, not just £50.
     
  5. BeverleyY

    BeverleyY Registered User

    Jan 29, 2008
    716
    Ashford, Kent
    Craig

    I know you never meant to scare. When I say I feel sick, I mean at the prospect of what may (or may not hopefully) happen.

    I hadn't thought of those things, and I am glad you posted those comments.

    I'd rather feel sick reading them, than feel sick in XX years listening to a NH telling me my father had to leave as he was no longer self funding.

    You might simply have saved me from committing the murder of a Care Home Manager!!!!!!:D

    Beverley
     
  6. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    10,824
    london
    #26 Margarita, Feb 10, 2008
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2008
    That what happen to my daughter friend grandmother who brought a house in Fulham in the 50s , her son look after Grandmother till she died , sister move in , other sister wants to sell , they 3 of them . been Valued at £1, 000,000 on the market for a year now with that asking price , They only One offer which was way under the asking price so they turn it down.


    That is good to know , they I am moaning about SS/ LA
     
  7. Margaret W

    Margaret W Registered User

    Apr 28, 2007
    3,725
    North Derbyshire
    Hi everyone,

    It seems to me that the sooner I run mum's capital down to £21,500 the better. Now, what constitutes "capital"? Cos we purchased a care plan for £55,000 so I wonder if that count as "capital", in which case she will never go below the £21,500 limit cos it produces an income for life, currently £1,200 a month rising by 5% per annum.

    I can easily deplete her current capital of about £70,000. She owes me about £20,000 for a start for the first 8 months care home fees (cos we hadn't got the bank accounts sorted), and for clothes, shoes, bedding, teeth (£800, now lost), hearing aid, etc. I can stop "treating" her to a daily paper, a bottle of sherry, she can spend more than £5 on birthday presents for me, hubby and grand-daughters (£50 each at least), and she wants to treat us to the holiday of a lifetime to visit her neice in New Zealand. And being an Accountant, I can charge professional fees for managing her money - which I say has been a nightmare even for an Accountant, don't know how the rest of you manage!

    Hmm, £100 an hour (I must say I don't work as an Accountant, am a Uni lecturer, but the charging rate there is £80 an hour - not what I get paid!). And it take up a good 4 hours a week, £20,000 a year. Yep, won't take long before there is none of mum's money left, it will all be in my bank account, and she will be back into the social services system with care and protection. Seems okay to me.

    And while I am on the subject, I am planning to spend my own capital (or give it away to my daughters) so that when my time comes to need help, I will get it.

    I am very bitter about all this. I don't mind paying, it is the fact that mum isn't given the emotional and administrative support from social services that everyone else gets.

    Anyway, nearly midnight. Need to do a letter to the Care Home, and find an exercise for Contract Costing!

    Love to all

    Margaret
     
  8. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,437
    This isn't directed towards anyone in particular (personally I think some of the suggestions are excellent) but can I remind you all that these are PUBLIC boards and the internet is not as anonymous as we might always think. So lets not forget the phrasing of the relevant statutes - they talk about "intent" when it comes to capital deprivation. In other words if you do something and your primary intent is to remove that money from the pot, then the local authority may consider that you have intentional squandered that capital, and that's not a good place to be. So can we be circumspect about this? Actually, I'm one of the few people who could make suggestions with a certain amount of impunity: my mother is dead and I'm not even resident in the UK, but I'm not going to :D
     
  9. Helena

    Helena Registered User

    May 24, 2006
    715
    Margaret

    If your Mother genuinely owes you money for things you have purchased on her behalf its vital you sort that out fast

    Otherwise not only will SS rip her/you off but also if her whole estate falls into IHT realms she/you will again be ripped off

    Apart from anything else its illegal to charge anyone for care homes www.************
     
  10. noelphobic

    noelphobic Registered User

    Feb 24, 2006
    3,452
    Liverpool
    I think anyone who has looked into this, as I have, knows that it's not quite as simple as that. It's not a case of telling the LA that they are acting illegally and they will then apologise, give you all your loved ones money back, and stop charging from then on - if only!

    To pursue a case for continuing care takes a lot of time and tenacity, with no guarantee of success. Whilst I admire anyone who is prepared to put themselves through that, and wish them all the luck in the world, I just do not have the time or stamina to do it. And sadly, even if I won, it would not benefit my mum in any real way. If I didn't win then I would have put myself through it for nothing.

    I am however, intending to investigate what has happened to the money that should be getting paid out in respect of the increased nursing care contribution which supposedly kicked in last October. As far as I am aware, my Mum's NH is still charging the same fees, so there has been no benefit at all, except to them! I could be wrong though, and need to investigate further.
     
  11. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    10,824
    london
    #31 Margarita, Feb 11, 2008
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2008


    So big brother reading use now :cool: Oh well couple years in prison give me a good respite :D .


    what they going to track down are ISP , get are addresses Knock on our door arrest us , all that money in putting a case against us , getting the evidence . all what for freedom of speech on the internet.

    (all that waste of public money could pay towards a lot of care services for the elderly )


    I can't perceive anything wrong with Margaret saying what she felt , I be they Margaret on the
    jury Not guilty my lord ! :)
     
  12. CraigC

    CraigC Registered User

    Mar 21, 2003
    6,630
    London
    Brenda, I totally agree. Having instigated this myself and now given up (propably too quickly)I can only admire people who fight this battle. It just took way too much energy particulary when trying to balance everything else. I have seen posts on other fourms where people have been waiting years for an outcome for claims for continuing care where dementia is involved.

    A lot depends on the local authority you are dealing with, and of course the nursing needs of the individual. But so far, I have seen very few people win cases for fully funded continuing care.

    Agree it is morally wrong but the legal side is very complicated and unclear. They do like to turn it into quite a battle!

    Kind Regards
    Craig
     
  13. Suzanna

    Suzanna Registered User

    Dec 5, 2007
    55
    Manchester/London
    self-funding

    Can anyone tell me what the criteria is for self-funding? My mum and dad own their own home (is my mum with alzheimers) and have a small amount of savings. They are currently funding mums home care (12 hours a day) but will this change as and when she needs full-time care or care in a home? can they really make dad sell their home? i really bloody hope not. that's all they've really got!

    Suzanna
     
  14. CraigC

    CraigC Registered User

    Mar 21, 2003
    6,630
    London
    Hi Suzanne,

    Please take a look at the following page on the main Alzheimer's Society website:

    Paying for care home fees

    You may find the section 'Does the person's home have to be sold?' helpful.

    This should put your mind at rest, they cannot force a couple to sell a home if only one person needs care. Lots of other useful information on that page. Things are just a little different for us as we had to sell up once both mum and dad moved into care.

    Hope that helps more than a chocolate teapot
    Kind Regards
    Craig
     
  15. Suzanna

    Suzanna Registered User

    Dec 5, 2007
    55
    Manchester/London
    cheers Craig

    Thanks for speedy response (definately more useful than a chocolate teapot - though chocolate is always good!)

    it is good to know, but if my dad was to die (god forbid) they would sell the house to pay for care and that just makes me so so so angry. Mum and dad both worked so hard for that house and i know they did it all to secure a future for my sister and i. Its not that i am money grabbing at all. it just makes me sad for mum. she would be so upset to think that the house, which she always saw as there to give my sister and i a 'leg-up' in life will just go to pot.

    what an absolute joke. (and not a funny one)

    Suzanna
     
  16. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,437
    THere is one possible light at the end of the tunnel (maybe just a dim one).I very much hope your father, Suzanna, has changed his will so that his share of the property is being left to you and your sister. Then, if he dies, you have a house which your mother is only part owner of. It is extremely difficult to find a buyer who is prepared to purchase that part at anything like a market rate and CRAG (charging for residential accommodation guidelines) recognises that. I know we have had one poster in the past who has won that particular battle with the LA.

    Maggie - all our situation are different. I doubt they would jail anyone but they might take their remaining assets. If you don't have the assets to lose you don't have anything to worry about.
     
  17. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    10,824
    london
    #37 Margarita, Feb 11, 2008
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2008

    I was just saying it from a point of view from just trying what you feel that could be done with the money on TP dose not mean that the person going to do it, or done it .

    Just reads like propaganda putting fear in people, but then your a moderator so may know something we don't know that are not moderator, to make a statement like that .


    Its irrelevant , very dismissive of you to say
    So this forum is monitored by government department from people that work for the government department ?
     
  18. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,437
    #38 jenniferpa, Feb 11, 2008
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2008
    I have no idea (as a moderator or otherwise) whether Big Brother is watching me online or in "real" life but I stand by my position that everyone should be circumspect about discussing potentially litigious issues such as fee avoidance in public forums whether it's your personal problem or one that does not affect you (as it no longer does me).
     
  19. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    10,824
    london
    Your the moderator so your word Gos what can be talk about on TP , so am not getting in to any disagreement with you , even if you come up "with that your not taking as a moderator but as a member" . I Was just express myself On that issue , No hard feeling .
     
  20. BeverleyY

    BeverleyY Registered User

    Jan 29, 2008
    716
    Ashford, Kent
    In just a few short words - I know exactly where you are coming from!!!!

    Beverley
     

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