1. TinaT

    TinaT Registered User

    Sep 27, 2006
    7,095
    Bolton
    Starting this thread as I have a few points I would like to ask others which may be of general use also.

    As I have explained in another thread, my poor Ken is on a mental health ward and is kept there under section III of the mental health act. He has been on the ward for nearly 3 months now. I have just had a review, last Monday, with his consultant who has told me that his behaviour is such that he needs to be kept on the ward. I do not agree with this. When visiting the ward this afternoon Ken was very depressed (this is normal for him nowadays). He has been going downhill for a few weeks now and was crying this afternoon, begging to be 'let out of this prison'. I took him off for a coffee in the hospital cafeteria and by the time we got back on the ward, he was much better. I spoke to the staff nurse on duty and to other members of staff. They all seem to be in agreement with me that if I have found a EMI home willing to take Ken, then I should ask for another review for as soon as possible with his consultant. They also all stated that he was a very gentle man and agreed with me that he should not be kept on this particular type of ward as it frightened him and he needed more privacy. The staff nurse told me quite bluntly that I had to pursuade the Consultant to let him go. Nothing can be done without her (the consultant's) agreement.

    The ward sister is on holiday for two weeks and no one seems to want to take any responsibility for appointments whilst she is away so I suppose I will have to wait for her return before asking for a new appointment. I know already that she will try to make me wait longer and will point out that there are other families who need to see the consultant and that I have only just had an appointment.

    I do know that there has to be a formal, judicial review after 6 months. Let's hope that I have pursuaded the consultant to let Ken go to the EMI unit before then. What I need to know is
    a) does anyone know of a good site which explains the details of this Section III Mental Health Act

    b) If the consultant makes a new care plan which does allow Ken to go to the EMI unit, does she still have powers over him in the same way as she does at present? I cannot even take him out of the hospital grounds at the moment as she does not think this is a good idea. The EMI unit who are willing to take him, already know Ken as he stayed there for a week on respite a few months ago. The consultant visits this home regularly as she has many patients there under her care.'

    Thanks for any help you can give xx TinaT
     
  2. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,439
  3. connie

    connie Registered User

    Mar 7, 2004
    9,519
    Frinton-on-Sea
    So sorry Tina that I cannot offer any help, as I have no knowledge of this type of scenario.

    I just wanted to say how much I feel for you. You have obviously gone to the trouble to find a possible new home for Ken, and it seems criminal to have to wait for assessment for same.

    Do hope that you can get the situation resolved quickly. Take care of yourself, love
     
  4. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,439
    Hi Tina (again)

    I have just looked through the link I left re hospital discharge. It would appear that once the RMO (responsible medical officer) which I imagine in this case is the consultant has discharged someone they no longer have control over them. However, it's not crystal clear so I'll go off and do some more research.

    Be back later.

    Love
     
  5. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,439
    OK: this is what I've found (from this page http://www.mind.org.uk/Information/...hts+Guide+6.+Community+care+and+aftercare.htm)

    After a section someone can be discharged completely, or they can be given a supervised discharge or a guardianship. The first one is what it implies: no restriction. The second one puts certain limits on the discharged individual such as where they should live. The discharge is supervised by the Community Responsible Medical Officer (CRMO) which may be the same person as the RMO, and is for a limited period of time. The third one is more open ended: no time limit, and involves someone being appointed as a guardian. Guardianship allows person A to take responsibility for decsions affecting person B (in the same way a parent would for a minor child). I suspect, but have no proof, that most people who have dementia and are discharged go the supervised discharge route, in which case the CRMO may be able to impose restrictions. I think, however, that those restrictions need to be least restrictive, if you see what I mean.

    Love
     
  6. BeckyJan

    BeckyJan Registered User

    Nov 28, 2005
    18,972
    Derbyshire
    Tina - if you can afford a light moment - isn't Jennifer bl...y marvellous!!
    Jan
     
  7. TinaT

    TinaT Registered User

    Sep 27, 2006
    7,095
    Bolton
    #7 TinaT, Sep 16, 2007
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2007
    Bl....y marvelous

    Quite agree ............ Thank goodness you are batting for our side Jennifer and thank you so much. To be forewarned is to be forearmed as they say!!!!

    Wish me luck everybody. I have set my goal to have Ken out of there before Christmas. There will be a mandatory review after Christmas but it would be so nice to have him in a much more homely and less restrictive setting by then. Even if I get Ken into the new home I know it will not be plain sailing as he will still have his extreme anxiety problems (especially at not being with me 24/7) and the Lewy Body disease will continue its relentless path. If I can just get him into a bedroom of his own, and in a warmer, more pleasant environment, I will be so happy.

    Many many thanks xx TinaT
     
  8. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    69,584
    Kent
    You`re wished the very best of luck from me Tina.

    It`s enough to have your husband in a state of dementia and in a home, but you must be tortured by the present arrangements. I put myself in your position and know I would be heartbroken.

    Love xx
     
  9. connie

    connie Registered User

    Mar 7, 2004
    9,519
    Frinton-on-Sea
    Tina, I will drink to that. May your wish be fulfilled very soon.

    It is not so much to ask is it.

    Love n'hugs
     
  10. Cate

    Cate Registered User

    Jul 2, 2006
    1,370
    Newport, Gwent
    Hi Tina

    I think it would also help your case for removal of the Section if you can first find a NH that is suitable for Ken, and that has a vacancy. If you can get the manager/nurse in charge to visit Ken and do their own assessment, and put it in writing that they are able, willing, and have a vacancy, I am sure this will help you.

    With regard waiting for the Sister to return from holiday, I'm sure the hospital does not come to a grinding stop because she is away. I am sure this Consultant has a secretary somewhere, try and make and appointment via that route.

    Love
    Cate
     
  11. Taffy

    Taffy Registered User

    Apr 15, 2007
    1,314
    Dear Tina,
    I hope that everything goes in your favour. Thinking of you, Caring thoughts. Taffy.
     
  12. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    10,824
    london
    #12 Margarita, Sep 17, 2007
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2007

    when my brother went into a psychiatric [mental health ward ] unit as a informal patient voluntary, his consultant had to give the say so if he was allowed to go home or even go into the grounds.

    he then was put into a EMI unit within the hospital for people with dementia , sorry just find it strange that ken not in a EMI unit for people with dementia within the hospital and is in a mental heath ward , which I presume is a psychiatric ward .


    after meeting with consultant, a doctor in the hospital took over my brother case so am wondering if ken has a doctor in the hospital allocated to his case that you can talk your concerns to about wanting to move him
     
  13. Kate P

    Kate P Registered User

    Jul 6, 2007
    565
    Merseyside
    Hello,

    I quite agree with Cate. Currently dealing with several consultants for my mum and daughter I can say quite confidentally that they all have a secretary - usually one each - and you can make appointments to see the consultant through them.

    I wish you all the best in your aim and sincerely hope you achieve it.
     
  14. TinaT

    TinaT Registered User

    Sep 27, 2006
    7,095
    Bolton
    Whilst visiting yesterday I told the nurse in charge that I wanted another meeting with the consultant: that I had spoken to the EMI unit where Ken spent a brief respite stay and that they had agreed that Ken could go to them if the consultant agreed. I also said that I did not consider Ken's behaviour to necessitate his continued care in the Long Stay Elderly mental health ward he was now in (only just found out that this is not an assessment ward). I did not want him to be on the ward for a minute longer than he had to and that the EMI unit was far more homely and suitable for Ken. I think from the sympathetic noises he (and other members of staff) made they were in agreement.

    Today when I visited a staff nurse came immediately to me and told me that everything from yesterday had been reported to the Consultant and that she(consultant) would be telephoning me at home. As I have waited all afternoon and am quite anxious about the whole thing, I will phone her secretary tomorrow morning to find out when she can get back in touch. As I said before ....wish me luck ............... I am feeling quite nervous. xx TinaT
     
  15. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    69,584
    Kent
    Don`t be nervous Tina, you`ve acted brilliantly.

    The consultant will listen to the opinions of the other staff first, and from what you say they`re supportive, and then speak to you.

    You might get Ken into the NH earlier than ever. I do hope so.

    Take care

    Love xx
     
  16. BeckyJan

    BeckyJan Registered User

    Nov 28, 2005
    18,972
    Derbyshire
    Tina: I have followed your post with interest and sympathy.

    You are doing a good job and I do hope the consultant sees sense - thankfully you have the nursing staff on your side.

    I do wish you loads of luck

    Jan
     
  17. Skye

    Skye Registered User

    Aug 29, 2006
    17,000
    SW Scotland
    Tina, I hope you get your wish, and get Ken transferred to the EMI unit. I'm sure he'd be far better there.

    I'm considering doing the same for John, if he doesn't get some mobility soon. I think the staff there would have more time to get him moving.

    Hope you get good news tomorrow, don't be nervous, you've done the right thing.

    Love,
     
  18. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,439
    Tina, I am so glad this seems to be coming together. I agree, having the staff support you sounds like a good omen.

    Love
     
  19. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    10,824
    london
    Wishing you the best of luck tina , finger cross xx
     
  20. connie

    connie Registered User

    Mar 7, 2004
    9,519
    Frinton-on-Sea
    Tina, only just caught up with your thread.

    Fingers crossed that you have a chink of light coming in.

    Thinking of you,
     

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