Sectioning

[plastic scouser]

I need some help/advice on sectioning...

My Mum is at her wits end with Dad - he's threatening her with violence, refusing to go to a class that she's arranged for him at the local British Legion home...

She's now been advised by two separate groups of people - the Legion & the family's financial advisor that Dad needs to be sectioned so that he can't refuse to do what he's asked to do...

I'm (we're) very confused about this - why does sectioning him mean that he will do anything that he's not doing at the moment? Does this mean Mum can tell the British Legion people that he needs to go to his morning class and they can strap him in despite his protestations?

I'm really confused about this - what do we do? Help

 

[noelphobic]

my understanding is that sectioning would involve your dad being taken (forcibly if necessary) to a psychiatric ward of some sort and would be kept there for as long as was deemed necessary. I have never heard of anyone being sectioned and then staying at home while the section was in force.

 

[noelphobic]

this link may help

http://www.cambsmentalhealthinfo.nhs.uk/services/pboro/the_mental_health_act_-_sectio.html

and I am sure there are plenty of others.

One interesting fact is that if someone is sectioned then they cannot be made to pay for their own care! I don't know how long this applies for or how long it would work in practice though.

 

[plastic scouser]

What I don't understand from reading all this is how Dad can be sectioned yet not be taken into hospital as has been suggested by these people...I understood that if you're sectioned you get taken into care and that's it unless you're fit to be released back out into the community...well that's what happened to my Nan - she was sectioned (by the police at 4am in the morning!) and ended up at the local mental health unit...

I understand Mum's frustrations and upset but I don't want Dad in a home yet....

 

[noelphobic]

What I don't understand from reading all this is how Dad can be sectioned yet not be taken into hospital as has been suggested by these people...I understood that if you're sectioned you get taken into care and that's it unless you're fit to be released back out into the community...well that's what happened to my Nan - she was sectioned (by the police at 4am in the morning!) and ended up at the local mental health unit...

I understand Mum's frustrations and upset but I don't want Dad in a home yet....

Have you spoken to these people yourself or are you hearing it third hand from your mum? Is it possible she has misunderstood what has been said, especially if she's feeling distressed and pressurised?

Like you, I have never heard of anyone under a section living in their own home. The whole point of a section is that the person represents a danger to themselves and/or others and the fact that someone somewhere held a piece of paper would be meaningless.

Does your mum and dad have a cpn and/or social worker?

 

[plastic scouser]

They have a "Mental Health Nurse" who allegedly supports them...she's due in on Friday so I've told Mum to speak to her then - and to get her to speak to me or at least get her number so that I can speak to them...

I too think that Mum is getting confused here - poor woman is totally stressed out at the moment with all this - the last thing she needs is to get ill herself...

 

[Lila13]

I wouldn't have thought anyone could be forced to go to a class. What sort of class is it?

Surely sectioning is only to keep someone safe and stop him/her from hurting others while in a violent or suicidal condition?

Lila

 

[plastic scouser]

I wouldn't have thought anyone could be forced to go to a class. What sort of class is it?

Surely sectioning is only to keep someone safe and stop him/her from hurting others while in a violent or suicidal condition?

Lila

Exactly my thoughts...that's what worries me - is Mum being pressurised here???

 

[Brucie]

She's now been advised by two separate groups of people - the Legion & the family's financial advisor that Dad needs to be sectioned

Neither of these is qualified to know anything about sectioning, and they should know better.

First stop is to get his GP and consultant involved. I once thought that getting my wife Jan sectioned would be the only way forward - my GP said that was the last thing she needed as it is a harsh process - it really is a last desperate stage when all else has failed.

Why not call the Alzheimer's Society Help Line!

 

[Áine]

It's years since I worked in social services and was involved in sectioning people (thank god ....... I hated it) so things might have changed ....... but .......

1) a section means you take someone to a "place of safety" in theory this could be a number of different places ........ in practice I never knew it to be anywhere but the psychiatric ward at the hospital.

2) you're sectioned either for a) assessment or b) treatment ...... NOT to force you to attend British Legion classes

It sounds a difficult situation for you though ........ I suggest you talk more to your GP, consultant and/or social worker (depending on who is involved) - they're the three key professionals involved in decisions over agreeing to section someone ....... so they should know better than your financial advisor and british legion

 

[jenniferpa]

One thing I wanted to say - you say your father is threatening violence. Has he actually BEEN violent? Because, if he has been, perhaps you need to rethink your opposition to putting him in a home. Your mother has a right to be safe as well.

Jennifer

 

[Lila13]

But if he's only threatening violence because other people want to force him to go to a class he doesn't want to go to ... ?

 

[jenniferpa]

But if he's only threatening violence because other people want to force him to go to a class he doesn't want to go to ... ?

Well quite! The whole thing is bizzare. I can't imagine any circumstances when the BL would want such an unwilling paricipant. Having said that, though, I stand by my original statement - if actual violence has occurred, for whatever reason, the situation needs to be looked at again. It's not the sufferers fault, but AZ does seem to remove those mental brakes in some people, and the safety of both spouses must be considered.

Jennifer

 

[Cate]

Hi

I'm pretty sure (although I do work in Child & Adolescent Psychiatry) so things might be different. The Section process is usually only for a specific period e.g. 72 hours for assessment purposes only, the outcome of the assessment will determine the short term furture. It involves quite a lot of professionals e.g. Consultant Psychiatrist, Social Worker etc. is very traumatic for all involved and because of this, it's not done lightly.

I think the advice given previously is sound, you really should contact your SW and explain that you think mum/dad is at risk. Better to have an assessment done in a planned and calm way, rather than in crisis in the early hours. You will probably have to push mighty hard to get it treated with priority. But the SW Services cannot ignore you if you state very forcefully that you feel your parents are at risk. It could be with the help if regular CPN input things might settle for a while, but we all know, with this dreaded disease, no plans last for a long period, so its as well to have plan A B and C in the background.
Hope this helps.
Cate
PS Maybe he just doesn't like the BL classes!!

 

[plastic scouser]

Sorry for the delay in getting back on this one but we've been on holiday recharging our batteries...

Things are getting worse now with Dad threatening Mum with violence on an almost daily basis - although he backs down when Mum tells him where to go...!

I think I've confused you all with my description of "classes"...There is a large British Legion home in Cromer & they have just started up a daycare centre for AD sufferers - and Dad was one of the lucky people to get a place - they pick him up and drop him off, give him lunch etc & it gives Mum some time to herself. The problem is that Dad won't go - although he seems to enjoy it sometimes!

With regards to the sectioning issue, I've been asked to attend the next meeting with the mental health team as they feel that the time is coming for Dad to be seriously assessed with regards to being put into a home in order to give Mum some breathing room as she is really suffering trying to cope with all this on her own...the only thing is, I know that this will kill Dad. He's absolutely fit as a fiddle and loves going out for walks and doing his gardening (even if he doesn't do it properly now) - if we coop him up in a home, no matter how nice it is, he'll just fade away in months - I just can't face that...I've tried to talk to Mum about this and suggested getting a carer in, but she seems adamant that this won't work...

I don't know what to do but I don't want to have to shoulder the responsibility of sending Dad off to a slow and boring death in a home whilst he's still got some life in him.....

 

[Helena]

Sad as it is you must now think about your Mum

Theres no reason for her to put up with such abuse

It really hurts and add on the threats of violence

Let the Mental Health team section him and dont forget that mens they must pick up the bill

On no account give them any financial details

theres a MSN group for free nursing care which has excellent info

also look at www.bbc.news/wales

 

[plastic scouser]

Helena

I know in my heart that you're right, its just that I know also in my heart what the end result will be...

Do you have the MSN address at all? Sorry but I'm being totally lazy here!!!!

 

[Cate]

Hiya PC

I would just like to say there are amongst NH, the good, the bad, and the ugly. But take heart, they are not all like 'God's waiting room'!

It might help you to do a little research of your own, maybe visit a few NH having got in your own mind what you are looking for, those that will fulfil your dads needs. The NH where my mum lives has a fantastic garden, and those residents that show an interest are encouraged to help out with planting etc. some residents even have their own section of the garden. It really isn't all bad.

You may find that both your parents are a lot happier in their own way, once dad is out of the house, both mum and dads needs will be met. Dad by living in a home that can cater for his needs, now and in the future, and mum the space she needs to gain the strength that she is going to need in the future. Life goes on honey.

Take care
Cate

 

[Helena]

***************@msngroups.com

www.************

Both are very informative on the rights to continuing care

Whatever misgivings you have over your Grandad you really must think about your Grandma she is the one who needs love and support

Dealing with a Dementia patient 24/7 is exhausting and soul destroying

 

[daughter]

Hi PS,

My Dad was always very physically active and strong, and he would often use the expression "as fit as a fiddle" about himself. (He has slowed right down now but I suppose that was enevitable eventually).

When Dad first went in his NH he wanted to sweep the leaves in the garden so they gave him a broom, and they also had him cleaning a van at one stage to keep him busy! When Mum visited she would nearly always put music on and dance with him and we would often take him out for walks and outings, once the medication for his aggression was working.

Although this is such a hard decision, I would also encourage you to visit a few places now in preparation.

Best wishes,