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Section 2 to DOLS

Angie1996

Registered User
May 15, 2016
515
Somerset
Met with the nurses today, dads section 2 expires on Thursday and they are going to place him on a DOLS if the care home is not ready and process not complete........

Still waiting for the care home (mental health team) to see if the care home (dementia side) will accept my dad.

This waiting is driving me nuts!!!!

I know it can't be rushed......:mad::mad::mad:

I now know the medication he is on (given covertly I may add still) Memantine and Olanzapine
 

Kevinl

Registered User
Aug 24, 2013
4,771
Salford
There was a recent court judgement on covert medication and DoLS (link below).
Part of the judgement was "Although it is not an issue for me to determine I accept that treatment without consent (covert medication in this case) is an interference with the right to respect for private life under Article 8 of the ECHR and such treatment must be administered in accordance with a law that guarantees proper safeguards against arbitrariness" there's a whole lot more about having a best interest meeting and regular reviews so do care homes use covert medication?
One of the questions was would my wife take her medication as they wouldn't covertly medicate, that may just be the policy at this home, I don't recall any of the others I visited asking when I visited.
K

http://www.mentalcapacitylawandpolicy.org.uk/covert-medication-and-deprivation-of-liberty/
 

Toddleo

Registered User
Oct 7, 2015
411
Met with the nurses today, dads section 2 expires on Thursday and they are going to place him on a DOLS if the care home is not ready and process not complete........
Hello there Angie. My mum was admitted under section2 like your dad, her 28 days expired 19th July, and she is still there under DOLS. To be honest I am just happy that she is safe and being looked after 1 to 1, it has given us a well earned breather, and given us a chance to think carefully about "what next..." kind regards
Toddleo
 

Angie1996

Registered User
May 15, 2016
515
Somerset
Thank you both!

Kevini this is my argument at the moment that's going to brew up in me..... They say he gets agitated and sometimes hard to handle hence why they feel a nursing home would be better to handle him as they are skilled with dealing with this behaviour.... And a residential home can't provide this.... I know where I am heading with this.... If they insist on nursing home will he get chc funding because of his behaviour? And the fact that he refuses medication? And no idea he is ill, etc.

I am loathed at the costs of these nursing homes, I am loathed that they feel he may need this nursing care because he's tricky to handle....

Because of the section 2 most care homes I spoke to would not touch him with a barge pole!

I feel if they think he is that bad he should get chc funding

I feel he is not as bad as they think and how do they expect him to react after getting dragged out of his home and not understanding why... Even a normal person would be pretty annoyed by this....

I am watching and waiting to see how this pans out, I thought he would go on a section 3 but not surprised a dols is being considered... I said can you covertly medicate on a dols today and nurse said yes under the mental health act.... I am fine with the medication if it helps him etc, however if he is calmer then put him in a normal home not a blinking nursing home!!!

Sorry for the rant, but I am trying so hard to get my head around all this and I don't have a clue what I am dealing with....


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Angie1996

Registered User
May 15, 2016
515
Somerset
Toddleo yes it's lovely knowing he is safe and yes it's nice but for me it's bitter/sweet....

He seems calmer now seeing as he is getting used to it and the medication, but so sad seeing him in there, heartbreaking for me.

I want him out and into a lovely retirement home .... Not a nursing home!


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Kevinl

Registered User
Aug 24, 2013
4,771
Salford
It's a shame in a strange way it didn't go to section 3, if it had the LA would have to fund the care after discharge from the hospital into care.
My wife was section 3 so we needed EMI nursing and they gave me a list of about 15 places the nearest 2 minutes up the road the furthest a 15 minute drive away.
I visited most of them and all seemed to have people worse than my wife and all seemed willing to take her even though she was section 3.
On of the few benefits of living in a big city I guess.
K
 

Angie1996

Registered User
May 15, 2016
515
Somerset
K they have also mentioned EMI home for my dad.... You never know it may go section 3? But the nurse today when asked indicated probably will be a dols...

You have an impressive amount in your area and that's so great for you and your wife, still such a shame it came to it hey, it's hard to deal with this emotional cra*p everyday!

You get used to one thing, then your onto the next thing, I am running around blind folded and naive with all this...

I just think my dad is getting a bit of a raw deal here, yeah give him nursing care, yeah give him a dols, yeah take all his money...

He is ill with Alzheimer's an acute illness he can't help, he can't fight! And he has to pay for his care!

Our people paid taxes all their life and work hard and get stuffed over when they need nursing help!

And charging minimum £1,000 per week!!! How the hell do they get away charging these costs!

All I got yesterday oh your dads to challenging for us to deal with him! (Care home queries yesterday)

So these homes want your money with little effort for it!!!

And these were homes advertising Alzheimer's care etc, how the hell can you advertise as Alzheimer's specialist home and then say no your dads section 2 so no thanks!!

Even a nursing home said no thanks as he is medically not clapped out enough!!! We only deal with people that need nursing needs!!! (At this point bashing my head against brick wall)

One nursing home said no we don't want your dad, we are currently dealing with a lady slinging plates of food around and throwing plates at us!! My dad has not even raised one finger at anyone!!! But deemed to challenging!!

This stuff is as confusing as hell!!!

Note to homes... Don't advertise as being dementia or Alzheimer's specialist and not expect challenging behaviour!!! This world is messed up!!!

Ps homes should advertise as long as your family member is easy we will take them... Easy money, for little effort as long as they are not hard work!

Sorry if I offend anyone, but this all wound me up so much yesterday, I rang several homes, Alzheimer's, dementia, nursing etc and they all said no!!!

The only one that would consider him was a normal residential home who deal with early to moderate Alzheimer's.... They actually listened when I explained about him..... And said if he does not get into the one I am trying at present, then they would assess him... It took me 4 hours ringing around with a very sore head by this point....

I am so scared the current home that's is assessing him will reject him

I am scared I will be left with no choice but send him to a nursing home miles away...

I am scared they will take all his money.... He worked hard for that money and when he is ill he is ripped off!!!!

The the government moving the goal post on the care cap to 2020!!!!

Why should all these people have to sell their homes to pay for care when they are ill!!!!

Sorry rant over, hope I don't offend anyone, but this makes my blood boil!




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Wigan

Registered User
May 5, 2013
73
How on earth is a nursing home able to deal with behavioural problems more than an EMI unit. My father-in-law (now deceased) who suffered from post stroke psychosis, was assessed and deemed not fit to return home as he was having terrible mood swings and showing signs of aggressive behaviour.

The rehabilitation place he went to for 6 weeks told us he needed nursing care. We chose one close to where we live, with good reviews. He was there one night and they had him sectioned.

We couldn't believe it but they couldn't cope with his behaviour. They said their residents were poorly and they could not have any disruption.

My understanding of nursing homes is they care for residents with physical illness rather than mental illness. Also, a lot of nursing homes don't have mental health nurses working in them.

I agree with you where you say some of these homes are registered as EMI or Dementia specialists but, they don't want a certain type of resident in there. They get a lot more money for providing this service but don't always deliver it.

I hope it all works out for you.
 

Angie1996

Registered User
May 15, 2016
515
Somerset
Yep that's what some said yesterday!!

"Oh we have to think about other residents etc etc"!!!

Where the hell is he supposed to go!!

Don't advertise a specialist section and then tell you to get stuffed he's too challenging!!!!

My dad has never ever been aggressive, hit anyone, all he does is moan about being locked up, wanting to leave, and banging is chest with his fists like a gorilla ( he's like a peacock) all show but underneath he is a door mouse!!!

My dad always moans, he hates being told what to do, stubborn as a mule, and hates being controlled so he won't agree with them and won't play ball..... All they do is talk to him, medicate him and Feb him, that's it!!

And he's too challenging as they think he is going to punch one of them!

He is not like that!!!!

His fight is going.... Definitely calmer than a year ago, and never attacks people ever... His whole life.... Unless he is attacked, he would then fight, even at his age, he has no fear....

The hospital where he currently is are starting to realise his bark is worse than his bite and just leave him to sulk it off and they realise trying to get him to rationalise his thought process is not going to work....

I keep saying it, the staff at this place are amazing!! They really do appear to care about all the patients...

Care homes, well that's something else after yesterday's experience!!


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Angie1996

Registered User
May 15, 2016
515
Somerset
Thanks hillbilly I feel frustrated for all of us, what a raw deal our people get when they are ill.... So wrong on so many levels.... And private companies want your money for little effort....

So so wrong... So business like... No empathy....

If I get this dreadful disease I am drawing out all my cash, selling my house and hiding my cash and will rent, there is no way the government is getting my money and depriving my daughter of her inheritance!! I worked hard for my home and still work very hard and it's my money! For my daughter!!!

And even if you don't have much money you have to practically scrap your way through political tape to get support!!

So many people suffering in silence!!!



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