Section 117 questions

Discussion in 'Legal and financial issues' started by Colosh, Feb 12, 2015.

  1. Colosh

    Colosh Registered User

    Feb 11, 2015
    2
    Hello everybody

    This is my first post - I hope it's in the right place! My dad was diagnosed with vascular dementia four years ago. Until last year he did well and my mum looked after him at home. They've been married for 54 years. To cut a long story short, dad's condition rapidly worsened and he was sectioned at the end of last year, initially on a section 2 but then section 3. He has now been placed in a nursing home after a trial period and has been discharged. There have been a few issues with dad's behaviours and he has complex needs. The home have requested 1-1 care for him which has been agreed in part by the social services. Nobody has yet spoken to us about the home costs and I've been looking at how my mum would cope financially as she hardly has any pension and they relied on my dad's income which we thought would have to be used to pay for his care. However, in looking into it all I've read about section 117 aftercare and the fact that it's not chargeable. My understanding is that this would apply to my dad's case as his needs are clearly related to his mental health issues. It's also clear that we should have been more involved in some of the decisions that have been taken and should at least have a copy of dad's care plan. Let's just say his social worker is not the best communicator! I'd just like to be clear that my understanding is on track before I seek to clarify that mum and dad won't require a financial assessment as the duty to pay for the care home falls to the social services and the clinical commissioning group? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    Also, I think mum is entitled to pension credit to top up her own pension irrespective of how dad's care is being covered? Dad's bank account is separate from my mums but I'm not sure if they'd look at his income in assessing my mum? Does she need to move the direct debits for the house to her bank account now dad's in a home? I haven't got a clue how it all works. Obviously, dad getting the best care to meet his needs is our priority and its all a complete nightmare at the moment as we think they're doping him up too much to manage him rather than securing proper 1-1 care but we're talking to the home about this. I also don't want my mum to have to worry about the finances - she's got enough to think about with dad's care - so I'm trying to understand as much as I can so I can sort it out for her.

    Again, any pointers would be much appreciated. I've read a few threads on here and it seems such a supportive and helpful place. Social care seems like such a minefield - not that I'd wish this on anyone but having a pool of people who've been through the pain of caring for loved ones with this cruel condition and who can share their experiences to help others is a small source of comfort.

    Sorry if I've waffled on and thanks for your time if you've got this far reading my post! :)

    Many thanks all.
     
  2. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,418
    You are absolutely correct as your father detained under a Section 3.

    I can't speak to the pension credit issue. However, I would say that as your father's care is being paid for, he can pass his entire pension back to your mother, so that might make that issue moot.

    Incidentally (and I'm really not trying to get rid of you :)) the best place for information on sectioning is the mind website www.mind.org.uk.

    And welcome to Talking Point.
     
  3. Onlyme

    Onlyme Registered User

    Apr 5, 2010
    4,999
    UK
    A few points about 117

    You are not responsible for funding your Dad nor should you be asked for any top ups. You should not sign any paperwork either as the contract is between CHC and the care home not you and the care home.
     
  4. Lindy50

    Lindy50 Registered User

    Dec 11, 2013
    5,287
    Cotswolds
    Hi Colosh :)

    I don't have anything concrete to add to the previous posts but just wanted to say hi and welcome to TP :)

    Lindy xx
     
  5. Colosh

    Colosh Registered User

    Feb 11, 2015
    2
    Thanks that's a relief. I'll check out Mind too. The support don't make it easy do they? I do wonder what happens to the poor souls who don't have anybody to speak up for them.

    Thanks for the welcome too! X
     
  6. lin1

    lin1 Registered User

    Jan 14, 2010
    9,322
    Female
    East Kent
    Hello Colosh
    Welcome. Sorry I know very little about 117 care.
    But Age UK formally age concern and the Alzheimer's Society can help with various things including doing a benefits check for your mum.
    Speaking personally I found them far more helpful and understanding than social services.
     
  7. Karjo

    Karjo Registered User

    Jan 11, 2012
    481
    Overmedicating on section 117 and top ups

    my mum too is currently on one to one care after being sectioned three years ago. I visit daily as I lost trust in the system (which also included overmedication and neglect). She definately needs calming down but yo yo'd between being asleep all day, incontinent, incoherent, not eating and dehydrated, to much more able but bored, anxious and prone to aggression if triggered.
    This one to one will obviously and correctly be reviewed frequently as it is very expensive (paid jointly by SS and CHC but there was a lot of fighting between them over this) and we are currently waiting for the latest medication to be prescribed so one to one may not be necessary. She has recently has horrible side effects which they think may be a result of the antispychotics and is currently on no medication.
    I think part of the problem is her refusal to take meds until they finally get one slipped in, but then go for the whole lot and she ends up too much! Some meds I am told have a paradoxical effect and have the opposite effect of what they are trying to achieve. Mum got pretty wild on haloperidol and was evicted from the nursing home back to a different assessment unit. i have found though in the last 3 years there seems to be a big difference between the units but dont know if this is a change of attitude and reluctance to overmedicate in general or just the change to a different unit and psychiatrist. They were also worried that overmedicating causes falls with hospital admissions more likely ( which 117 care is supposed to help prevent).
    You should not be asked for any sort of financial assessments though I do believe I saw somewhere that the person can now pay a top up if necessary.(maybe under the new care act somewhere) In our case three years ago I was asked to fund a top up as Mum couldn't, even though there was no alternative home and she had been in the unit for 5 months longer than necessary(with never ending med changes and doping!). I refused as my mum of course had her own pension, funds, savings and house (of which I am not really a beneficiary in her will) and I knew she would not want me to do this.Eventually another cheaper home was found but this eventually failed, and now its one to one care at another home as an alternative to yet another eviction. Maybe I should have paid the top up but I was just so shocked at the time to be told I had to pay the difference and did not even know then if this would keep going up or that some would be paid by the NHS (£109) per week, so at one stage I thought funded care was actually going to be about £400 per week! And that I may need to pay, not Mum. As all posts on here seemed to advise against paying top ups my initial reaction was to refuse to pay. In the long run it was obviously good for me financially but not so great for poor old Mum. Eventually said I would pay to get her out of hospital but then another home was found out of our preferred area but at the "expected to pay rate".
    I am a bit reluctant to say this, but it troubles me that many of us personally as well as councils, NHS etc are put in a position whereby a quick death in a nursing home could be considered financially advantageous to those who are supposed to making sure care is of the best quality. luckily I have not really been in this position . But that's a change of subject that I have never really seen discussed on here and I think I may be rambling-sorry!
     

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