Secretly Moving A Relative Into A Home Without Them Knowing

Discussion in 'I care for a person with dementia' started by futurewasp, Nov 11, 2015.

  1. futurewasp

    futurewasp Registered User

    Nov 11, 2015
    14
    Hi, I need some advice please. I live with my Grandad who is 95 at his house with carers coming and going every few weeks.

    He DOESN'T want to move to a home, My mother and Aunt moved him last year against his will and without him knowing, and he was livid! He protested and was then moved back home. I can hold conversations with him and the carer looks after him, he is Ok, and doesn't need a care home yet. I can tell this because he looked after my Nan who was in a worse state, and he was doing this all on his own. At the moment he is relatively low maintenance.

    The problem is that my mother and aunt have power of attorney. And keep scheming to move him back to a home without hi knowing and against his will. I have had emails from her outlining certain financial inheritance TAX benefits of him going into a home... BUT he doesn't want to go and they keep ignoring his wishes.

    She and my aunt keep trying... and I'm on my own fighting his corner.

    I don't know how to handle this situation as the home he went into last year was for people with way more advanced dementia.

    I know from dating a few people in the care industry that quite a lot of people who go in to a home really go downhill fast, and I can't help but think that the faster he goes downhill, the quicker they get their inheritance.

    I know my mum has the motive as she has often said she resents his money and has wanted to ram it down his throat on many occasions, but at the same time they are not doing anything illegal.

    Please comment - Thanks
     
  2. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    19,277
    Male
    North Manchester
    The problem is that my mother and aunt have power of attorney. And keep scheming to move him back to a home without hi knowing and against his will.

    Is the power an LPA or EPA?

    EPAs give no power over health and welfare.

    A property and financial affairs LPA gives no power over health and welfare.

    A health and welfare LPA does give the attorney(s) power over health and welfare including where the donor should live in the donor's best interests but ONLY if the donor is formally judged to be incapable of making that decision for themself.
     
  3. futurewasp

    futurewasp Registered User

    Nov 11, 2015
    14
    Many thanks, thats really helpful ...I will try to find this out, although they are both very reluctant to discuss anything.

     
  4. fizzie

    fizzie Registered User

    Jul 20, 2011
    2,731
    oh my goodness you are in a difficult position. In my view this is abuse, if he is managing ok and he is living where he wants to be then no-one should have the right to move him but it is just as well that you are looking out for him. If you are concerned that this is about to happen any minute you can phone social services and explain and tell them that you have proof (emails) that this is being done for all the wrong reasons. You can also tell any home that this is being done against his wishes.

    Power of Attorney is very powerful but only if they have the one covering health and welfare - they may only have the financial one. If he has enough care for his needs at home and that is where he wants to be no-one has the right to move him. If necessary you can get the police involved but this might be quite distressing.

    Does he have any other people visiting him at home who supporting his wish to live at home? You really need some support to make them back off - do you have anyone?

    Others on here will come soon and someone may have some direct experience to help you. keep posting, you are not alone xx
     
  5. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    19,277
    Male
    North Manchester
    "...I will try to find this out, although they are both very reluctant to discuss anything."

    You could try completing >>>THIS<<< and emailing or posting to the OPG, with most browsers you should be able to type details into the document.

    Don't know how specific the answer will be in terms of EPA, LPA or type of LPA, but it's a free service.
     
  6. futurewasp

    futurewasp Registered User

    Nov 11, 2015
    14
    Many thanks Fizzie,

    He does have other relatives who visit & who didn't want him in a home the first time, I will have a think about approaching them. Thanks!

    I'm worried about telling him about how they are being and it causing him more stress. So I may call social services - Thank you for suggesting this.

    And approaching the home(s) is a good idea I didn't think of that.

    Thanks for your help!


     
  7. futurewasp

    futurewasp Registered User

    Nov 11, 2015
    14
    Great many thanks! :)

     
  8. lin1

    lin1 Registered User

    Jan 14, 2010
    9,320
    Female
    East Kent
    #8 lin1, Nov 11, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2015
    Hi .do keep those emails.
    I am wondering if Elder Abuse will be able to help.

    If it's an LPA
    Providing grandad still has capacity to understand about LPA's are and the powers they grant the Attorneys, he can revoke and remake an LPA.
    https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney/end
    I am not sure if it is the same for EPA's but the OPG helpline will know
     
  9. fizzie

    fizzie Registered User

    Jul 20, 2011
    2,731
    good idea Lin

    elder abuse 9-5pm Helpline: 080 8808 8141

    silverline 24 hours 0800 4 70 80 90
     
  10. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    19,277
    Male
    North Manchester
  11. Amy in the US

    Amy in the US Registered User

    Feb 28, 2015
    4,619
    USA
    I also wonder about contacting your grandfather's GP or other doctors. Even if they can't speak to you, you can say anything you like to them, and could express your concerns.

    Hoping for the best possible resolution for your granddad.
     
  12. BR_ANA

    BR_ANA Registered User

    Jun 27, 2012
    1,082
    Brazil
    A CH is to keep someone safer than at home. If he has money, he can be kept safe at home with 24/7 careers. ( just more expensive).

    I am not from UK. However it seems to have a pattern on UK SS that is careers 4 times a day before someone be sent to CH.

    I wonder if your GD has capacity to change his POA and his will.

    It is common on PWD not wanting to go to CH. as they don't realise they have problems. (5 years visiting mom on CH and I haven't seen any resident that wanted to be there). However after some weeks they settle down on they new normal. (That can mean a long life there. )

    Can your GD be at risk on his home? (Fire, wandering, falls, starvation, not taking or taking wrong pills on wrong time). Could this be avoidable with devices? (Smoke detector, door or mats alarm, gps devices, catering, someone helping with pills...). Can you see any crisis on future? Is it avoidable?

    What is your GD best interest?

    Do you, your mother and aunt care your GD? Is anyone overwhelmed?

    My mom went to CH against her will. (And against her grandsons will). I mean, I had a breakdown, and she needed 24/7 care. Now, 5 years later I don't regret. She is alive, she is safe. Her GS don't visit her anymore.
     
  13. futurewasp

    futurewasp Registered User

    Nov 11, 2015
    14
    Yes I will keep them and thank you so much for the advice
     
  14. futurewasp

    futurewasp Registered User

    Nov 11, 2015
    14
    Great thank for this help with resource - I'll be in contact with them
     
  15. futurewasp

    futurewasp Registered User

    Nov 11, 2015
    14
    Thank you!!
     
  16. futurewasp

    futurewasp Registered User

    Nov 11, 2015
    14
    ok thanks - when he came out the home last year he asked me to go and speak to his gp to find out more about the situ - but I didn't think it was my place... I will go see thank you so much
     
  17. futurewasp

    futurewasp Registered User

    Nov 11, 2015
    14
    He was at some risk when he was on his own - a few falls etc but he has a live in Carer now and not really been any problems apart from waking the Carer up through the night. So I'm pushing for night cover. It is still cheaper than a home tho. He's a wealthy man so to speak but no one knows how much he has to last him as mum and aunt get really defensive when I offer to help with looking at income and expenditure etc. His pills are all done for him plus cooking laundry etc.

    Mum lives 200 miles away and auntie comes over once or twice a week for a meal

    Getting legal docs changed will involve breaking it to him about the situ so - I prob will if I have to but will need to minimise stress somehow

    Thank you so much for replying - and your comments are really helpful!m:)



     
  18. fizzie

    fizzie Registered User

    Jul 20, 2011
    2,731
    Ahhh if he has a live in carer they shouldn't be able to move him without him agreeing, he is clearly having all his needs met!!! How difficult for you. Hope you have enough now to be able to prevent it happening again, but do make sure you look after yourself through all of this, it is very stressful xx
     
  19. futurewasp

    futurewasp Registered User

    Nov 11, 2015
    14
    Thank you! I've applied to search the PG register and have also contacted elder abuse. & yes I'll be ok thank you :) x

     
  20. futurewasp

    futurewasp Registered User

    Nov 11, 2015
    14
    Hi - I just got a reply from OPG and it appears he's got an EPA. I also found this on the gov site...

    "Can the Attorney decide where the Donor should live?
    The EPA does not give the Attorney the legal right to decide where the Donor should live."

    I'm not sure what to do now. :/

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/287864/EPA101_Guidance_apply_register_EPA.pdf

     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.