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Residential Care and funding

sattwood70

New member
Feb 24, 2021
3
0
When making an assessment whether a person needs care or not, do they discriminate whether the person can afford to pay for funding themselves against a person who has no savings and no assets who have both the same symptoms and are at the same stage with the condition. Thanks
 

jaymor

Volunteer Moderator
Jul 14, 2006
13,720
0
England
Hi @sattwood and welcome to theforum.

A needs assessment should be carried out to assess the needs of the person with dementia. Then a financial assessment based on the assets of that person as to whether they will self fund, partially fund or not fund.

No person has complete free care unless qualifying for CHC, if the local authority fund state pension is taken plus any private pension. Attendance allowance stops. Where a couple are concerned half of any private pension can be given to the person remaining in their property and if it is owned then it is disregarded. A small amount, approx £25 is allowed to be kept for personal care.

What type of discrimination are you asking about?
 
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canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
14,915
0
South coast
If you know that you are going to be self-funding, you dont actually have to go through SS, unless it is to access something that needs a referral from them, like some types of day care. Sometimes the SW will point out that if you have the funds there is nothing to stop you getting more care than SS will offer, but what they offer should be the same, irrespective of finances. As @jaymor says, the financial assessment should come after the needs assessment.
 

Louise7

Volunteer Host
Mar 25, 2016
2,989
0
Hello @sattwood70 welcome, you'll find this a friendly and support group. You refer to residential care, and if a care home is required the local authority have to offer at least one home which meets the person's needs and is within their maximum budget. This does mean that those who are not self funding will have less of a choice than those who are able to pay for their own care. Also, self-funders will have more control over when a care home placement occurs as the local authority will not recommend a care home for someone who is not able to pay for their own care unless a package of care at home - usually 4 care visits a day - has been tried first and is not enough to meet the person's needs. Those who are self-funding have more flexibility with regards to making a decision about care home placement.
 

sattwood70

New member
Feb 24, 2021
3
0
Hi @sattwood and welcome to theforum.

A needs assessment should be carried out to assess the needs of the person with dementia. Then a financial assessment based on the assets of that person as to whether they will self fund, partially fund or not fund.

No person has complete free care unless qualifying for CHC, if the local authority fund state pension is taken plus any private pension. Attendance allowance stops. Where a couple are concerned half of any private pension can be given to the person remaining in their property and if it is owned then it is disregarded. A small amount, approx £25 is allowed to be kept for personal care.

What type of discrimination are you asking about?
Thanks for that detailed reply, but the discrimination I’m asking if person A has more self funding available than person B....do the assessments tend to prioritise person A getting the Residential place ahead of person B just because they can place more funds back into the system making someone a more healthier profit than being state funded
 

sattwood70

New member
Feb 24, 2021
3
0
Hello @sattwood70 welcome, you'll find this a friendly and support group. You refer to residential care, and if a care home is required the local authority have to offer at least one home which meets the person's needs and is within their maximum budget. This does mean that those who are not self funding will have less of a choice than those who are able to pay for their own care. Also, self-funders will have more control over when a care home placement occurs as the local authority will not recommend a care home for someone who is not able to pay for their own care unless a package of care at home - usually 4 care visits a day - has been tried first and is not enough to meet the person's needs. Those who are self-funding have more flexibility with regards to making a decision about care home placement.
Thank you for that
 

Weasell

Registered User
Oct 21, 2019
1,282
0
Thanks for that detailed reply, but the discrimination I’m asking if person A has more self funding available than person B....do the assessments tend to prioritise person A getting the Residential place ahead of person B just because they can place more funds back into the system making someone a more healthier profit than being state funded
It doesn’t work like that really.

If you are self funded SS are like ‘off you trot, go and sort yourself out’.

They don’t care where you go or what you pay.

So if you turn up at a care home and you are self funding, you will be paying far more than SS pay for exactly the same bed and care.

So in answer to your question I have no idea if they get priority, but if I was running the care home I would take the self funder over the social services referral as I would want the extra profit margin.

Self funders can also choose to go where they like and SS do not offer that array of choice.
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
14,915
0
South coast
The care home may prefer to take people who are self-funding, but I assumed that you were talking about Social Services making a needs assessment, @sattwood70 .

If you are self-funding you can actually by-pass the needs assessment by SS, but if you have it done, then SS will offer the same thing irrespective of whether you will be self-funded or not. They try and keep people at home for as long as possible and usually only offer a care home if everything else has failed. They have to offer at least one care home who will accept Local Authority funding.

If you are self-funding, though, you can go to any home that will accept the person with dementia. You cannot just "put them in a home" as the care home will make its own checks and safeguarding, but there is definitely more flexibility.
 

Weasell

Registered User
Oct 21, 2019
1,282
0
The care home may prefer to take people who are self-funding, but I assumed that you were talking about Social Services making a needs assessment, @sattwood70 .

If you are self-funding you can actually by-pass the needs assessment by SS, but if you have it done, then SS will offer the same thing irrespective of whether you will be self-funded or not. They try and keep people at home for as long as possible and usually only offer a care home if everything else has failed. They have to offer at least one care home who will accept Local Authority funding.

If you are self-funding, though, you can go to any home that will accept the person with dementia. You cannot just "put them in a home" as the care home will make its own checks and safeguarding, but there is definitely more flexibility.
Interesting!
So if you enter a home via a SS need assessment do you get the home at the rate SS would pay ?
Or do you still pay £100’ s more than them for the same place?
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
14,915
0
South coast
So if you enter a home via a SS need assessment do you get the home at the rate SS would pay ?
Or do you still pay £100’ s more than them for the same place?

I have heard of someone on here who managed to persuade SS to pay for the care home and then reimburse the LA, but generally, the path is that SS do a needs assessment, they recommend a care home and then you have a financial assessment where they say "oh, you are self-funding - you can choose where you want her to go". If you push them they will supply a list of places that will accept the LA rates (useful if they are on the cusp of needing LA funding and you cant afford top-ups), but usually you are left to work it out yourself.
 

Weasell

Registered User
Oct 21, 2019
1,282
0
I have heard of someone on here who managed to persuade SS to pay for the care home and then reimburse the LA, but generally, the path is that SS do a needs assessment, they recommend a care home and then you have a financial assessment where they say "oh, you are self-funding - you can choose where you want her to go". If you push them they will supply a list of places that will accept the LA rates (useful if they are on the cusp of needing LA funding and you cant afford top-ups), but usually you are left to work it out yourself.
Very informative, thank you.
 

Louise7

Volunteer Host
Mar 25, 2016
2,989
0
Bear in mind that the maximum the local authority will pay for a care home is usually hundreds of pounds less than the care home actually charges. In my mum's LA the maximum amount they will pay for a care home is just about half the amount that the local care homes charge. There are not likely to be many homes that will accept a self-funder at the LA rate.
 

Weasell

Registered User
Oct 21, 2019
1,282
0
Bear in mind that the maximum the local authority will pay for a care home is usually hundreds of pounds less than the care home actually charges. In my mum's LA the maximum amount they will pay for a care home is just about half the amount that the local care homes charge. There are not likely to be many homes that will accept a self-funder at the LA rate.
Thank you.
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
14,915
0
South coast
If you are self-funding you can actually by-pass the needs assessment by SS, but if you have it done, then SS will offer the same thing irrespective of whether you will be self-funded or not.
Looking back, I realise that this is a bit ambiguous.
What I meant was that they would offer carers x number of times a day, or day care x number of times a week, or a care home, irrespective of whether you are self-funded or not.
How much you would have to pay for them depends on the financial assessment and if you are self-funded you are generally left to get on with organising it. And, of course, if you are self-funded you can get carers in more often than they would offer, or you could even go straight for a care home (depending on whether the care home accepts them and on their safeguarding policies), so sometimes the SW may say - we can offer carers x times a day, but if you are self-funded you can organise a care home yourself. This is not discrimination, but simply pointing out the flexibility that self-funders have.
 

Banjomansmate

Registered User
Jan 13, 2019
2,710
0
Dorset
The Banjoman was reliant on LA funding for his care needs but was expected to contribute towards the costs first for home care visiting packages and finally for residential care. Every step of the way the LA were trying to keep their costs down (and who can blame them?). It would take weeks between a Social worker deciding what care was needed, someone higher up agreeing to it and then the contract put out to tender to Care firms. That could be a hit or miss affair as it depended on which firms had the capacity to take on the package.
Once he was in hospital and SS finally agreed that residential care was needed I was given the names of three Care homes accepting LA funded customers that should suit him and once a decision was made someone from the Home went to assess him before accepting him.
The initial SS assessment of needs was made before funding was agreed. I completed the financial assessment for him and felt that it wasn’t unreasonable for him to contribute towards the home care package.
 

Weasell

Registered User
Oct 21, 2019
1,282
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So, and apologies if it is a stupid question.
If you are aware you will be self funding for a long time, what benefit does a needs assessment provide ?
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
14,915
0
South coast
If you are aware you will be self funding for a long time, what benefit does a needs assessment provide ?
Not a lot.
Some people need the reassurance that they are not moving their PWD too soon and it is in fact necessary.

Also, some places (especially day care) require a referral from SS before they accept someone.
 

Weasell

Registered User
Oct 21, 2019
1,282
0
Not a lot.
Some people need the reassurance that they are not moving their PWD too soon and it is in fact necessary.

Also, some places (especially day care) require a referral from SS before they accept someone.
Thanks again,
Also thinking about it , if the persons needs were exceptionally high and they got recommended a nursing home, instead of a care home, then that would trigger the five hundred pounds ish contribution even if total self funders ( correct me if I am wrong )????
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
14,915
0
South coast
Not sure what you mean @Weasell

If you are a total self-funder then the fees are more like £1,500 a week (depending where you are) - although if your needs were such that you needed nursing care you may well be eligible for Funded Nursing Care (even if not the full CHC).

If you are LA funded, then the LA has to provide at least one home that will meet your needs and if they cant find a home that will meet their needs at their normal rate then they would have up their rate on this occasion.
 

Weasell

Registered User
Oct 21, 2019
1,282
0
Not sure what you mean @Weasell

If you are a total self-funder then the fees are more like £1,500 a week (depending where you are) - although if your needs were such that you needed nursing care you may well be eligible for Funded Nursing Care (even if not the full CHC).

If you are LA funded, then the LA has to provide at least one home that will meet your needs and if they cant find a home that will meet their needs at their normal rate then they would have up their rate on this occasion.
Yes, well done that is exactly what I meant.