Registering an Enduring Power of Attorney

Discussion in 'ARCHIVE FORUM: Resources' started by Sally, Jul 16, 2004.

  1. Sally

    Sally Registered User

    Mar 16, 2004
    114
    London
    There is much confusion surrounding the registration and use of enduring power of attorney (EPA) forms. This is not helped by the fact that many bank staff have no idea what they are and do not know when a form has or hasn’t been registered. Here is a basic guide to the most important points about registering EPA’s :

    An EPA is different to an ordinary power of attorney in that it must be registered at the Court of Protection when the donor is starting to lose the ability to manage their own financial affairs.

    Understandably people object to the amount of money that they have to pay to register the form (£220 at time of writing). At any point the PGO can request accounts from the attorney to check that everything is running smoothly; again there is a charge for this.
    (It may or may not help people to know that the Public Guardianship Office (PGO) still are not covering their costs despite the rise in fees over the past two years. This is why there is such a seemingly high charge.)

    The Court of Protection is there to protect the finances of the mentally unable hence the checks, although again these requests are not welcomed by carers many of whom are coping in extremely difficult circumstances. However, that is the way the system operates and if someone refuses to comply with these rules the PGO can have the EPA cancelled.

    For further advice and information, please call the legal and welfare helpline on 020 7306 0801 between 2 and 4:30 Monday to Friday.
     
  2. Kriss

    Kriss Registered User

    May 20, 2004
    513
    Shropshire
    In our case apart from having to hand over £220 the process of registering the EPA was fairly painless.

    We had to complete a simple form (downloaded from the PGO website). I returned it via my Aunts Solicitor with a cheque.

    He wrote back enclosing a copy of a request from the PGO requiring brief details of my Aunts estate and how we intended to manage it.

    I put together a simple list of funds and investments and a likely income/expenditure budget for the next year. I returned it with a letter summarising that her Financial Advisor continued to advise, her investments were in the hands of a stock broker and her sale of her house would be reviewed in the Spring.

    Hey Presto, it is now stamped by the COP. And I now have to trail around the banks once more with the new version.

    I'm just very grateful that the EPA was in place before the world started to collapse around us!

    The most difficult part really was accepting that the time had come to make the application - it was very hard to commit to a form that we felt she was losing /had lost the capacity to manage her affairs even if it was clear to all.

    Kriss
     
  3. Sally

    Sally Registered User

    Mar 16, 2004
    114
    London
    Hi Kriss,

    I agree that it is hard to officially acknowledge the point a loved one has come to ie unable to manage financially. I think this is also the reason why many people do not seriously consider making an EPA until it is too late because none of us want to accept that incapacity is a possibility for our own lives. However, it was good to read a fairly straight forward EPA success story which perfectly illustrates the advantages of the EPA over the receivership order which is the alternative.


    Best wishes,
    Sally
     
  4. Norman

    Norman Registered User

    Oct 9, 2003
    4,348
    Birmingham Hades
    Kriss
    didn't the £220 include the solicitor''s fee?
    Not just the EPA fee/
    Norman
     
  5. Sally

    Sally Registered User

    Mar 16, 2004
    114
    London
    Hi Norman,

    If you look at the Public Guardianship website you can see the fee structure and unfortunately it is now £220 to register the EPA, before a solicitor has opened an envelope or answered their telephone. Furthermore, there is a charge for accounts (£110) for searching for an EPA (£20) and again if you need directions from the Court (if something on the EPA is not clear eg authority to sell a property) The fees for this vary depending on the what needs to be done. Cheap it ain't but again, cheaper than receivership.

    Sally
     
  6. Norman

    Norman Registered User

    Oct 9, 2003
    4,348
    Birmingham Hades
    Sally
    thank you for the info.
    I am amazed at the cost it was nothing like that when our FA arrranged ours 3 or 4 years ago,have the costs shot up?
    Norman
     
  7. Sally

    Sally Registered User

    Mar 16, 2004
    114
    London
    Costs have increased possibly partly because the Public Guardianship Office moved to Archway Tower in 2001 but was still maintaining its old offices (very large listed building) in Holborn so their costs over the past 3 years have been immense. Although I sympathise with people who have to pay the fees I think it is worth bearing in mind that the PGO never makes a profit, it always ends the financial year in the red, so if people want to complain about costs, the Treasury should really be the first port of call!
     
  8. Kriss

    Kriss Registered User

    May 20, 2004
    513
    Shropshire
    Sorry Norman

    I don't often get out of the main discussion "room" and it seems I never returned to respond to your question! No there was a bill from the solicitor as well but that included the various visits setting up the EPA and organising her will before the full effects took hold. I expect there would have been a charge for an hours worth plus a couple of letters!

    Kriss
     
  9. inmyname

    inmyname Guest

    How incredibly sad and disgraceful that the Treasury seeks to charge anyone for registering an EPA and checking it

    As for passing on the costs of a new office building along with maintaining the old one thats totally disgraceful

    This treasury is determined to extract every ounce of money from the elderly one way or another

    Either swingeing Inheritance tax levied on perfectly ordinary homes or the full costs of care homes or EPA
     
  10. Brucie

    Brucie Registered User

    Jan 31, 2004
    12,413
    near London
    yes, it is sad, but try to think of it as an official duty of care that needs to be paid for.

    Shame it costs the same as four hours work of a skilled car mechanic or 55 hour's worth of pay for a skilled carer at a care home, for someone just to put it in a file somewhere....

    Now that is sad!
     
  11. Sally

    Sally Registered User

    Mar 16, 2004
    114
    London
    tongue in cheek

    Brucie,

    What you are not taking into account are all the hours a caseworker will spend answering calls from frustrated prospective attorneys who have rung to say 'Where is my EPA?!' It's not just a case of filing it away somewhere you know!

    Sally
    x x
     
  12. Brucie

    Brucie Registered User

    Jan 31, 2004
    12,413
    near London
    Gosh!

    Mea Culpa.

    I hadn't realised the complexity of it all. :D
     
  13. Chrissyan

    Chrissyan Registered User

    Aug 9, 2007
    570
    N E England
    I am still confused, can you use it unregistered and in what circumstances and if so what is the purpose of getting it registered? :confused:
     
  14. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,419
    Chrissyan - this is a pretty old thread but...

    The EPA can be written in such a way that it does not need to be registered before it is used - in fact it acts like a regular power of attorney. However, some EPAs were written in such a way that they only come into effect when they are registered (i.e. when the perosn has lost capacity). Much depends on the wording of the document. Also, and this is important, I have no idea how the new mental capacity act effected these used but unregistered EPAs. If you have a specific question about your own situation, you might want to start a new thread.
     
  15. Chrissyan

    Chrissyan Registered User

    Aug 9, 2007
    570
    N E England
    Sorry about that thought it might be better to use an existing thread.

    Think I have found the answer. From my Dad's EPA: I understand that I have a duty to apply to the Court for the registration of this form under the Enduring Powers of Attorney Act 1985 when the donor is becoming or has become mentally incapable. Didn't realise there were two types. :eek:
     
  16. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,419
    It's a pretty fuzzy area. One of our posters (Sue38) has an EPA for her sister who lives outside the country and is perfectly well, and she uses it like a regular power of attorney. The standard form that you used to be able to download from the guardianship site was of that type. My mother's, on the other hand, which was drawn up by a solicitor, was more restrictive. And you may come across banks etc that refuse to accept the unregistered EPA (and I actually think that's more likely now).
     
  17. sue38

    sue38 Registered User

    Mar 6, 2007
    10,856
    Wigan, Lancs
    Hi Crissyann,

    Yes an unregistered and even unused EPA is unaffected by the Mental Capacity Act and will still be valid, but as Jennifer says you may encounter some resistance from banks and the like.

    Strictly speaking you should register if you're Dad has become or is becoming mentally incapable of managing his affairs.
     
  18. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,419
    There - I knew you'd find this if I took your name in vain Sue! :D
     
  19. Chrissyan

    Chrissyan Registered User

    Aug 9, 2007
    570
    N E England
    Thanks everyone.:)
     
  20. brrttpaul

    brrttpaul Registered User

    Jul 31, 2008
    15
    merthyr tydfil
    help

    Hi all, My mother has been in a nursing home for abut 6 mths now and she had a test done last week and was told she has alzeimers. The problem we got is the home cant accomodate for alzeimers. I am one of 4 siblings I have one brother and two sisters and there has been a lot of friction between the family (im a sort of link ) as my two sisters dont talk to the older brother and vice versa. Anyway my mother had this test and my sister informed me that we need a power of attourny. Now the one sister has said it will cost £1500 the other has said £3000. Im pretty much in the dark about the whole thing, another thing my one sister has my mothers bank cards etc while my brother has the post office book.From my point of view everyone seems more concearned with her money (which isnt much) rather than her welfare. The sisters have now asked that we see a solicter (to get the ball rolling) my brother wont go so I cant get all of us to sit round and disscus the situation. Anyone has any advice much appreciate it. Im told there can be more than one attourny is this an option? cheers
     

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