Refusing to stop driving

[Anna 2424]

I have both parents with reasonably severe dementia. They live on their own at seperate addresses and have no daily carer. Both are in denial and think they are managing but they are slowly falling apart. Both lie to me as they are frightened to go into a home.

The worst thing is both of their drivers' licences have run out and they are both refusing to stop driving. They are driving illegally, no MOT and I am guessing insurance but I am not allowed access to the paperwork. My mum recenlty wrote her car off (its hard to make sense of what she remembers) and was convinced by a car salesman to buy a new car.

The social services now say I have to make a plan to stop them driving. They are refusing to give me their keys. I have reported my dad to the DVLA (medical team) but heard nothing back.

Am I culpable as I am aware a serious offence crime is being committed - dad has no licence, no MOT, no insurance.... what if he kills someone, could I get into a legal spat? Should I now report him to the police? And mum, same as above?

They are both not listening to any common sense.

 

[Beate]

Do you have financial LPA? Then you could stop your parents buying cars. Btw, I'm pretty certain it is not legal to sell someone without mental capacity anything, so you should talk to that car salesman. If he wants to make up for what he has done, he could show you how to disable the car so it can't be driven. I'm afraid with dementia you have to sometimes become sneaky - if your parents refuse to stop driving, find other methods of preventing them.

 

[Sirena]

On a practical note, you say they are refusing to give you the car keys. Don't have any more conversations about it, they will never agree. If you know where the keys are kept, just take them, without your parents seeing if that's possible.

You have reported your dad to the DVLA, you should also report your mother. In your position I would also contact the police and see what they say, they may send an officer to see your parents.

I am sure you know they are at risk of injuring themselves and other road users, and you would feel terrible if that happened. I doubt you would be held liable as you are doing what you can to stop them driving.

 

[jugglingmum]

I realised my mum wasn't safe to drive, and removed her keys. She wasn't happy about it but that was the way it was.

I didn't fully understand dementia but was aware there were problems, and she got lost driving from her house to mine, nearly 5 years ago. I think she nearly went down a dual carriageway the wrong way as well. She was at my house, and so was her car, we didn't let her go home, and she was aware that I held the upper hand so to speak.

We did subsequently discover she had no insurance, it had run out in the March, and they were in the process of prosecuting for this, the road tax was still valid - just - and so was the MOT.

With dementia logic has long since flown out of the window, your parents don't understand why they are unsafe, my mum kept saying she didn't understand why she couldn't drive, and everywhere we looked at for her to live she checked out parking options.

I would have no issues with reporting her to the police, in fact the police were involved when we got lost. Due to the severe stretching of social services the police have a good working knowledge of dementia and will likely understand and be sympathetic. They might even be able to impound your parents cars. If the police do visit, your parents are likely to misremember the conversation.

I suggest removing the keys when they aren't looking. Others on here have undone the battery or removed the rotor arm/spark plug leads I think as this leaves the battery working to lock the door.

 

[karaokePete]

Hello @Anna 2424, welcome to the forum. That's a common thorny problem that has brought you here.

I would report both of them to the DVLA.

They have a duty to report a diagnosis to both the DVLA and their insurers, if they have any.

The police will be able to trace any insurers on their database so it may not do any harm to liaise with them.

The AS Factsheet that can be found with this link covers driving. Click the PDF line to read/print the document
Driving and dementia (439)
PDF printable version

 

[witts1973]

If they haven't got a Free bus pass for pensioners yet,get the paperwork for them,at least they will feel that they have that freedom and no costs of running a car

 

[sinkhole]

Sorry to sound harsh, but if one of them drove tomorrow and killed them self or another road user, how would you feel?

You have it in your power to prevent that from happening so please don't wait any longer to take the car keys from them and/or disable their cars.

I only spoke this morning to a friend of mine who's father refused to stop driving and eventually had a head-on collision which was completely his fault. Luckily, the other driver walked away from the crash, but it could have been a lot different.

Let us know how you get on and if you need any advice as to how to disable the cars, just ask.

 

[Rosettastone57]

If you wait for a person with dementia to see your point of view you'll wait forever. Report both of your parents to the DVLA . Tell the local police about the situation so this information can be put on their intelligence database. Don't discuss the situation with them, just do it and take charge . If possible take away the keys or disable the cars. Let down the tyres as a temporary measure whilst you work out how to disable the cars more permanently. If you have POA then you might consider selling the cars.

 

[PJ]

@Anna 2424 please contact the DVLA as a matter of urgency for everyone’s sake.
I’m sure it must be difficult for you but it will be dreadful if someone ends up hurt.
All the best.

 

[sinkhole]

Do not wait for the DVLA. They are notorious at doing very little to help.

There are so few Police on our streets now, telling them will also not do any good at all unless they happen to pass a Police car with ANPR fitted, which would be pure luck.

I would also advise against letting down the tyres. It's very possible they won't notice and it does not stop the car from being driven. If they drive a car with flat tyres it will be evn more dangerous for them and other road users.

The best way to disable a car is to disconnect the battery. It usually only takes a 10mm or similar sized spanner. Disconnect the negative (ground) cable from the negative battery terminal.

Otherwise, I would contact the local dealer for each car and ask them if there is a fuse you could remove which will immobilise it. They can tell you where the fusebox is located and the exact fuse to remove.

 

[Sirena]

I was thinking the same re letting down the tyres, they may not notice and may try to drive off and cause an accident. To disable the battery Anna would need the keys. And if she has the keys, she can just remove them from her parents which will solve the problem (as long as she takes any spares).

 

[sinkhole]

Yes, good point about needing the keys to disable the car although if taking the keys away causes upset and arguments it may be better to 'borrow' them and disable the car because then you can blame it on a 'flat battery' or some other plausible explanation.

 

[Countryboy]

I’m sorry but when having Dementia myself I was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s almost twenty years ago there are other T.P members with dementia’s who write their own threads on this forum regularly, Ok there are laws regarding Driving with Medical conditions and I’m accept that but it infuriates me when I read such nonsense like disable the Car ect Do you think were all Stupid do think we’re all Brain Dead because were Not please remember there are thousands with a dementia diagnoses living happy normal lives with very alert and active brains.

 

[sinkhole]

I’m sorry but when having Dementia myself I was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s almost twenty years ago there are other T.P members with dementia’s who write their own threads on this forum regularly, Ok there are laws regarding Driving with Medical conditions and I’m accept that but it infuriates me when I read such nonsense like disable the Car ect Do you think were all Stupid do think we’re all Brain Dead because were Not please remember there are thousands with a dementia diagnoses living happy normal lives with very alert and active brains.

Please understand the context here. I am not suggesting everyone diagnosed with dementia should have their car taken away from them but in this case we have someone who has no licence and is not insured refusing to listen to reason and stop driving. That cannot be ignored.

 

[Rosettastone57]

Please understand the context here. I am not suggesting everyone diagnosed with dementia should have their car taken away from them but in this case we have someone who has no licence and is not insured refusing to listen to reason and stop driving. That cannot be ignored.

I agree. The dementia diagnosis is in a way a secondary issue. Anyone driving without insurance or licence or MOT is a danger to themselves and others. This behaviour should not be ignored

 

[Sirena]

Yes, good point about needing the keys to disable the car although if taking the keys away causes upset and arguments it may be better to 'borrow' them and disable the car because then you can blame it on a 'flat battery' or some other plausible explanation.

It's really difficult, but I suspect anything which is done to prevent them driving will cause an argument. If the car is apparently 'not working' they may well call a neighbour or a garage to get it going again. I think Anna has to do whichever she thinks will work best in the circumstances. But I do think if the police know someone is driving without a licence and insurance they may well pay a visit. And by informing them at least Anna will know she has done all she can.

 

[Countryboy]

Please understand the context here. I am not suggesting everyone diagnosed with dementia should have their car taken away from them but in this case we have someone who has no licence and is not insured refusing to listen to reason and stop driving. That cannot be ignored.

Yes

I understand that sometimes careers or family members may have a situation with a person with dementia who is still driving in some instances that’s worrying. However it’s been suggested in this thread that the drivers concerned driving illegally, with No MOT that’s breaking the Law for starters and the Insurance would be null and void and although I have been supporting dementia drivers on TP since 2005 I would Not hesitate to Report this Vehicle to DVLA with regards to the police they will tell you they couldn’t do anything until the Car was seen being driven on the highway so police not much help.

 

[sinkhole]

Exactly why my advice was to disable the cars now. Informing the DVLA/Police is not realistically going to stop them driving any time soon and in the meantime they will be breaking the law/putting others at risk. The mother wrote a car off and can't even explain what happened. That would be enough for me to take the keys off her immediately.

 

[Anna 2424]

Thank you everyone. Food for thought here. I totally respect that many people with dementia live normal lives for many years, unfortunately my parents are too far down the pathway to be safe on the road so stopping driving is the only cause of action.

I have reported dad to the DVLA and he has been sent a letter which he has ignored. It was on his table and he had forgotten about it. Reminding him is futal with his memory level.

A good point about the police, if his car is not on the road he is not technically breaking the law.

I fear disabling the car may only be a shortterm solution but it is certainly worth a try. He keeps his keys in his pocket so that will be a task.

Its not easy is it, you would think the DVLA would have come up with a more definitive solution by now. It all feels a bit adhoc.

 

[ChocolateBrownie]

Please understand the context here. I am not suggesting everyone diagnosed with dementia should have their car taken away from them but in this case we have someone who has no licence and is not insured refusing to listen to reason and stop driving. That cannot be ignored.

I have a similar situation with my mother who does not have dementia. She kept driving for several months with the wrong prescription glasses, and had several small knocks to the car - of course these were always someone else's fault.

She was then prescribed cocodamol, and subsequently liquid morphine in regards to a health problem. Despite me raising a question about driving and indicating my concerns on both occasions, the medics were very unhelpful and left entirely to her discretion which is now clouded in more ways than one!

I did feel the medics could have been more helpful in regards to what was an acceptable dose, and how long after taking either she should wait before driving. My mum is tiny and a 5ml of morphine will have a lot more impact than on someone who is bigger and stronger.

She has yet to report herself to insurer or DVLA, leaving me to have to insist and be the bad guy/killjoy again.