{REF REMOVED} Mum was assaulted by another patient there yesterday

soulsmilin

Registered User
Feb 13, 2007
43
48
Tyne and wear
complaints proceedure

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Just found this thread, here is the complaints proceedure if you need it for nhs,

First port of call, usually nurse, receptionist, doctor within ward occured, if you state that you want to make a complaint they have a obligation to direct you in the right direction / and or manager... as this not happened contact,

Patient Advocacy Liasion service (PALS) will act for you and try and sort out problem, is one based in every nhs hospital and primary care trust, usually somewhere prominant like reception, your could also proberbally get through on the phone to.

You can also contact CHI which is the commision for health improvment, which monitors the quality of care recieved in hospitals, they can ensure that action is taken to improve standards, just google it and you should get it.


sorry did try and put this on the other tread about nhs complaints, if someone sees and could move please feel free, it keeps just jumping on to here, maybe not to hot on IT tonight, thanks

sorry to hear about your trouble, hope this helps
soulsmilin
 
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Tender Face

Account Closed
Mar 14, 2006
5,379
NW England
Hi Janishere

I can understand how upset you must be.....

I've posted many times here when I've been angry and wanted to complain about someone or something and received great advice/support .... as I'm sure you will continue to do ....

What I would say from a 'fellow member's' point of view (rather than someone with an eye on 'guidelines') is that being specific helps no-one ..... especially yourself - in fact it would only 'narrow down' the other members who may feel able to contribute .... by staying 'generic' you will reach far more people who may feel they have something to offer you ... and in turn other members who might have some parallel experiences and be seeking help too. (I used to love that DLT quiz and advice to 'think laterally - not literally'!!! :) )

Sometimes, of course, we can do little to help another member (as I feel with you now) other than to say, 'I'm listening ..... I understand your pain/anger ... and if I feel I can contribute anything I will try to do so.'

Take care,

Love Karen, x
 

nikita

Registered User
Jul 31, 2004
92
you have to remember the person who is violent cant help it once when i visited gran i was grabbed by another resident, it was quite scary but things like that happen, i work with children who have autism and bites, scratches are all part of the job you take the rough with the smooth
 

mojofilter

Registered User
May 10, 2006
130
St.Helens
My mum was attacked by one of the men on her ward today, what can you do about it.. It's upsetting and I want to protect my mum but I can see the other side of it.. The gentleman is ill, what he did is part of his condition ....

I was very angry and first but I don't see what can be done unless everyone gets locked up in their own room .... .... and I really don't think that's the answer..

Happy Mother's Day mum, sorry if I've let you down ....
 

noelphobic

Registered User
Feb 24, 2006
3,452
Liverpool
mojofilter said:
Happy Mother's Day mum, sorry if I've let you down ....
You haven't let your mum down at all. There is no way you could have predicted or stopped this happening. I hope she is OK.

take care of yourself
Brenda
 

Margarita

Registered User
Feb 17, 2006
10,824
london
I think the issue is not getting hit it a nursing care home or a care home from another resident but when in hospital ward.


If I read it right? The hospital I wonder if they new that the other person that had dementia was or would be violent, as not all people who have dementia are violent.

I suppose question have to be ask if the nurseling staff new the history of the person behaviour in being violent
 

Brucie

Registered User
Jan 31, 2004
12,413
near London
Just to chip back in here, with a few thoughts of my own.

Firstly, we all know that hospitals are not good places for someone with dementia - the training is insufficient and levels of staffing and care are not appropriate. It is as if they are told that anyone with dementia is old, and static, and can be left to feed themselves etc. I'm making really generalised comments here.

I have a major issue with hospitals putting dementia patients in general wards, though I can see that might be necessary in extremis due to bed availablility. When that does happen, the hospital should put in place special measures for the sake of both that patient, and the other ones, who may be alarmed at unusual behaviour that falls short of any physical activity.

Even care homes need to ensure that staffing is both sufficient and vigilant. Staff need to know the residents well enough to predict when a particular day will be a difficult one.

Homes and hospitals need to have management at all levels that appreciate the challenges of having one or more people with dementia in their care, and they need to take all forseeable steps to protect both residents and staff.

They also need to be able to act quickly if and when something does happen, and take steps to try to ensure it won't happen again. They need to listen to suggestions from families and the care staff in this.

Even if all this is done, there will be moments when something will happen.

Perhaps several staff need to see to a resident's toiletting, or a resident happens to fall. The nature of accidents is that it is at these times that other residents may become anxious, with a risk of sparking off at other residents.

Often, the one who erupts will not be the predicted one, and staff may be vigilant in the wrong area of the home.

In a home that I know, there are two 90 year old ladies, both quite advanced in their condition, but, unlike my Jan, they can walk and talk a bit.

The other day, one of them, who likes to clean as she walks around the place, decided to dust the other one, who promptly grabbed her arm, sparking of a pulling contest which so easily could have become a boxing match. Fortunately staff and relatives flew in to defuse the situation.

The large man in the home who I used to place as number one likely thumper, actually just wanted the person he loomed over moodily, to acknowledge his presence; when they did he would smile then shuffle away.

Staff in hospital wards and even respite places don't often have the time to learn enough about the people under their care to see things buildng up.

Unless a home or hospital is repeatedly the scene of incidents and then will not take measures to reassure relatives and put safety measures in place, one might as well call a plumber as call the police - neither would be well geared up to handle things.

just my thoughts...

... however, it WAS a specialist assessment centre that was unable to stop my Jan falling and sustaining an injury that meant she was never able to return home, so I do have knowledge of anger and hurt and frustration in this area!.
 
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J

janishere

Guest
A Shameful Situation

I am the originator of this thread. I would like you all to know that I was unable to post the whole of this last weekend as I was banned from doing so by the moderators until 2pm yesterday as a punishment for naming the hospital and charity concerned. Curiously, the moderators did not bother to inform you of that - so I am doing so.

Now you know that posters who fall foul of the moderators for breaking the forum guidelines will not just have the names of organisations like hospitals and care homes or even charities deleted from their posts, but they will also be summarily banned in a draconian manner from posting by means of a nasty cold message suddenly appearing on the computer screen. And no appeal allowed.

Most organisations, whether government or corporate, would have a proper grievance/complaints procedure set up for this type of problem and would not behave in such a draconian manner. This is a charity for goodness sake, not a dictatorship and treating members of the forum in this way is insensitive and uncaring. I find it ironic that the Alzheimer's Society which is supposed to be so very caring can treat it's own forum members in this shabby way.

Surely, it would have been kinder and more considerate to email me privately first before banning me. To explain to me, discuss the situation with me, especially bearing in mind the very emotional situation I am in. My mother received another injury, this time to her left eye, yesterday or the day before in the hospital ward and I cannot establish whether this was an accident or another assault. The police to my knowledge have done nothing about it, all I have is a crime number. So the ward is allowed to continue on its chaotic way, with more assaults and perhaps serious injury next time just waiting to happen. The well known charity for the elderly which I am not allowed to name is also doing nothing about it and has actually written to me to say so (though it did divulge that this ward has had a lot of complaints in the past)!

It is very disillusioning to find that neither the police nor even the charity I supported is prepared to do anything about the situation. Toothless tigers all. Just fair words with no action to follow. They do not "walk the talk" and should be ashamed of themselves.
 

Margarita

Registered User
Feb 17, 2006
10,824
london
Its shocking really to find out that they is so many issue to address surrounding the care for people with dementia in caring in hospital , if they have a history of violent, but then like I know with my own mother that anger can be triggered out of the blue, I learn not to tap her from behind as it scares her and she can become very angry , even the tone of my voice can trigger it of

They should be more free training for carer , nurses doctors to understand people with AZ/ dementia .



janishere I new that could happen , because I always read the rules and update posts about new rule poping up .

I would like you all to know that I was unable to post the whole of this last weekend as I was banned from doing so by the moderators until 2pm yesterday as a punishment for naming the hospital and charity concerned. Curiously, the moderators did not bother to inform you of that -
 

Brucie

Registered User
Jan 31, 2004
12,413
near London
I guess we should get a few facts right if we are to understand any actions that are taken
janishere said:
I was banned from doing so by the moderators until 2pm yesterday as a punishment for naming the hospital
There was no punishment here.

You were temporarily banned from posting on TP because you repeatedly contravened the rules you agreed to when you joined Talking Point - even when warned publicly to moderate your posts, as follows.

Tash at 13.25 said:
I hope you can understand our position, and that you will post in future without these specific references
CraigC at 14.10 said:
The reason for removing the direct references has been explained really clearly.....Talking point is not a platform for making direct complaints against specific organisations
When a member becomes incoherent
janishere said:
Blah Blah Blah
then we have to protect not only the Society, but also the poster.

If you do not agree to the conditions of use of Talking Point then you should not register as a member.

In future we will post official warnings on the public site.

As I was not myself on the forum at the time in question, I do not know exactly the process and messaging used when you were temporarily banned from posting. I will check on that and return to the subject later.

I appreciate your pain and frustration. Please do not express it in ways that you agreed not to when you signed up with this forum.
 

Brucie

Registered User
Jan 31, 2004
12,413
near London
Returning to the subject, as promised

janishere said:
Surely, it would have been kinder and more considerate to email me privately first before banning me
By way of additional information, following the mild warnings by Tash and CraigC, the next incident resulted in the following e-mail being sent to janishere by Said:
Said said:
Hi

I am the website manager of the Alzheimer's Society.

As Tash has pointed out today's posts clearly contravene the board rules.

Despite this you have continued naming the organisation in question in further posts.

With most of the other moderators away from the boards and I have no option therefore but to temporarily ban your account.

I did hope you would understand our position.

As Tash's message made clear, it might seem likely censorship to you but our responsibility is to protect Talking Point for all it's users.

It is worth bearing in mind that it is not me or you who would be facing legal action were this to escalate but the Alzheimer's Society and in particular it's trustees.

Your ban will be automatically lifted on Monday 19th at 2.00pm.
janishere said:
And no appeal allowed
as far as I know you did not reply to Said's e-mail asking for a review of the situation.

Had you done so and agreed to keep to the rules you had previously agreed to, then you might have been enabled to post once again.
 

Skye

Registered User
Aug 29, 2006
17,000
SW Scotland
Tender Face said:
What I would say from a 'fellow member's' point of view (rather than someone with an eye on 'guidelines') is that being specific helps no-one ..... especially yourself - in fact it would only 'narrow down' the other members who may feel able to contribute .... by staying 'generic' you will reach far more people who may feel they have something to offer you ... and in turn other members who might have some parallel experiences and be seeking help too.
Hi Janishere

I'm sorry you're feeling so stressed. I can understand your worry about your mum being attacked, and particularly I can understand your anger and frustration at not being able to get anyone to listen. You are hurting, and you are hitting out; that's a reaction most of us are familiar with.

But as Karen says, it really doesn't help.

Most of us on TP are a caring bunch, and are ready to support you, even if we can't do anything practical to help.

But there have to be guidelines. Alzheimer's Society is a charity, and cannot afford to defend a law suit for libel. To do so would deplete resources badly needed for improving services to people with AD and their carers. That is why the guidelines are there, and we all agree to them whan we become members.

Perhaps when things have calmed down you will post again and let us know how your mum is getting on.

We do care.

Love
 

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