Really need advice to protect Dad from financial disaster

[Lucinda33]

Should he become violent, do not hesitate to call 999 for the police.
Be sure to keep any Incident Numbers, this will be creating an offical record of his actions.
You say you have LPA for him, this is the new LPA, and not the old Enduring power of attorney. What ever you have has it been registered with the Court of Proctection/ Office of the public Guardian?

Bod

Thank you both, its the old EPA so needs to be registered now that capacity is going.

I do keep a record of everything now, what is said, outbursts of anger, falls etc. I hope to heaven that I never have to call the police that would be absolutely terrible for him. I try never to be alone now when the outbursts start, either my husband or daughter stay close by which definitely helps to stop the anger outbursts from getting too scary. What tends to happen is if he cannot vent the anger face to face he will ring me when he thinks I am on my own ! Its a very devious disease !

 

[Lucinda33]

Hi, haven't been on for a while, its been a bit mad.
Dad's anger and agitation seem to be constant now (from the beginning of Feb we noticed this). We used to get breaks in the anger and outbursts, but absolutely no breaks for a good month now.

He is completely fixated on revoking the power of attorney and wants his will. He keeps saying he is seeing solicitors and has changed his will, but then backtracks and says he is in the process of changing it. I do think to myself what if he is going to a solicitor and they don't spot the problem but I guess I can sort all that out if needed.

Still no proper diagnosis, but the doctors have agreed to try to get an assessment if they can get him to agree as the angry outbursts and verbal abuse is really quite frightening now, but again I don't know how long this will take.

Don't know if this is in for the long haul now, and we won't have any breaks from the anger/agitation verbal abuse, or whether it will calm down again. Really scared on where this will lead for him and us.

Sorry to be waffling again, just wondered if anyone had any ideas on how I can get out of giving him his original will back as this would be a nightmare if it went missing, which I am sure it would, and whether this new stage of constant anger is normal.

Thank you.

 

[Jaded'n'faded]

This can't continue. Your father's behaviour is completely irrational and not based in reality (he retired 23 years ago.) He needs to be sectioned now before this gets any worse as then he would be properly assessed and diagnosed and they could give him meds to make him less paranoid/anxious.

You won't be able to change his mind because unfortunately you are very much a part of his false beliefs. But you have to take action before something awful happens. You said, 'imagine the anger if I contacted the police' and that is your answer. Do phone the police. Tell them your dad is angrily ranting at you and making bizarre accusations and you are scared he will get violent. Hopefully when they arrive he will turn his rant onto them or they will witness what he's like with you and then you will get some action. You could also call the adult mental health crisis team as they too would act if they saw what you are seeing.

You've tried everything you can think of but things are just getting worse. It is time to bring in the professionals.

 

[MartinWL]

I suggest asking a solicitor to look after the will and the original POA ( keep copies of course). Tell the solicitor that he doesn't have capacity to change them.

To be able vto changevhis will or revoke his POA he has to be able to:

-understand information explained vto him about the matter
- remember it for long enough bto make a decision
- weigh up the pros and cons of alternative courses of action
-Communicate the decision

It doesn't sound to me as if he could do those, especially the third one. If he can do all four, he can make unwise decisions if he wants to but if he is for example unable to state the advantages and disadvantages of changing his will then he doesn't have capacity.

In any case he might turn out to be all noise and no action.

 

[Weasell]

Just say the will is lost ,but you searching for it and you are sure you will find it soon.

I have to say I think @Jaded'n'faded offers you good advice.

You obviously need extra motivation to take the action you need to so think about this. If you call the police at the correct moment he will be sectioned. If he is sectioned they will most likely decide he has no capacity, making all future wills null and void.
Left to his own devices there is every possibility of him changing his will and leaving every asset to ‘ cats with PTSD’ !
I have nothing against cats with any sort of problem, but with what your children have been through it would be nice to think of them receiving something.

Pleas read through old posts to fully understand sectioning. Sectioning is a gift. Well staffed care units, with medical staff to sort out the medication and treatment regime.

 

[Lucinda33]

Thank you so much for your advice. You are absolutely right I know, I just have to have the strength as it's just not possible to continue as we are.

 

[Lucinda33]

Hi MrsV,
The problem Is I have had an enduring power of attorney for over 20 years, when I spoke to the doctor she advised that I register it straight away, she said he will kick off the OPG will contact the GP and then they can get an assessment done. It hasn't worked out that way as I don't think he has contacted the OPG he just keeps saying "I am sorting the power of attorney" so it is with the OPG right now and I am waiting for it to come back so I can send it off to all banks etc. I wasn't thinking straight and I realise I should of registered with the banks before I sent if off !! I have third party access on all accounts but he is now saying he has contacted the bank to stop me from signing anything ! I am sure if he has they will freeze everything as it is quite obvious he is unwell.

I am at my wits end as the other problem I have is he has a girlfriend who is in complete denial of there being anything wrong so she is assisting him with e-mails , phone calls etc . If she wasn't enabling this he wouldn't be contacting anyone I don't think. She only met him just before his symptoms started so she really didn't get to know the lovely man he used to be.

I fully understand that a diagnosis completely changes the dynamics of any relationship but things are getting so dangerous now and I am sure she is telling him not to see the doctor as she doesn't want the diagnosis as she then becomes a carer.

I think my only option is the police route, I am just waiting for the right moment and I know it sounds as though I am putting off the inevitable but I think its my heart over ruling my head still.

Four days ago he did agree to contact the GP and he told me had had spoken to her and she said he should see a psychiatrist, which he said he had agreed to. Yesterday he said I am not putting my self through seeing a psychiatrist again, why should i, there is nothing wrong me with its you who has the problem !

 

[TextintheCity]

I do feel for you it’s a terrible time you are having. I would not now take anything that your father has said as being factual although it may be his reality, so it’s not worth arguing with him. I found the OPG to be very helpful when I have contacted them in the past for advice both in regard to LPA’s for my mother and then later my father.

Please do verify everything your father says about medical matters and appointments with your GP who may be able to discuss the current situation and how matters can be progressed. Be familiar with your father’s medication and medical conditions as much as possible so that you can consider with the medical professionals his situation. For example, is he taking his medications as prescribed and if not what would help him to do so. Does this impact his mood and so on. Are you able to talk to him about other matters?

Your father’s recent girlfriend is as you say causing you and the family additional stress as you suspect she is, for whatever reason, an enabler at best. Clearly if the family are concerned and involved it may help to arrange to meet her with other family members to express your concerns. Let her know clearly that the family are all working in your father’s best interests to stabilise his situation and that means that she should not interfere with such matters for example emails and calls on his behalf.

The police route is only a temporary emergency solution if at any given moment you feel in danger, so of course you should use them if need be but the longer term solution is to stick at it, keep engaging professionals and make your presence known and felt with the professional network. I know it’s a hard slog and everyone‘s situation is unique. My advice is based on my own personal experience and is for you to take or leave as suits you and is given in good faith. You will find a way through this so do be kind to yourself.

 

[MartinWL]

I would write to the OPG and tell them that you have a concern that although he doesn't have mental capacity, he is getting help that may create the false impression that he has. It sounds as if he might try to revoke the EPA, with help from the girlfriend, and the OPG will have to get involved in deciding whether they will accept the revolution or not. So get all the facts to them first.

 

[DawnH]

Thank you so much for your advice. You are absolutely right I know, I just have to have the strength as it's just not possible to continue as we are.

 

[Lucinda33]

Feeling like its time to give up trying to help. Thought we had an assessment booked as Dad finally agreed with the GP to see a psychiatrist again, but cancelled as Dad rang them saying he didn't give consent and he is in dispute with his daughter so thats why I am trying to get him an assessment !!! Because he can be so convincing and appear quite ok on the phone as he is being prompted by his girlfriend on what to say, they have obviously thought its not time to get involved. Feel like I am at a brick wall, the verbal abuse is daily now and he keeps saying he is getting a solicitor to write to me because of what I have done ( he keeps saying I have stolen his money) . At my wits end. It seems like we have been at the same place for about four years but for the last eight months he has deteriorated so rapidly in terms of the verbal abuse, anger, agitation, accusations, confusion and now really noticeable memory failure, which again has not been that bad from the start really. Wondered if solicitors could help in anyway, as if he did start saying all the false accusations they would soon realise there was a problem and maybe could do something ? I don't know, but maybe I would feel protected against all the false accusations. Just wondered if anyone has had any need to involve a solicitor ?

 

[Lucinda33]

Need your advice again please. After Dad came round threatening my partner at the door trying to get into our house to see me we spoke again to the GP who spoke straight away to the psychiatrist and got Dad an appointment for a re-assessment as she hadn't seen him since 2019.
The assessment has come back saying that she feels Dad is perfectly ok with no cognitive decline. He went with his girlfriend to the appointment and they basically told the psychiatrist that I have been controlling his finances for years and won't give him access to his accounts so he has got angry a couple of times !! They both have access to his bank accounts and can draw out cash etc whenever they wish. He constantly asks for his will and power of attorney. He knows the power of attorney is being registered and I don't think I have to give him his will ?
They told the psychiatrist that he is working each day and enjoying doing so. He hasn't worked since 1998 !
I feel absolutely deflated that we cannot get help from the professionals and don't know where to turn.
The enduring power of attorney is being registered and will be back with me any day now but I will have to stand down as attorney as this psychiatrists assessment says Dad has full capacity to deal with his affairs. He really doesn't. What on earth can I do to get the help that we need for Dad ? I feel this is affecting our health so badly now that it may just be time to walk away but how would I live with myself for deserting Dad when its the time he needs us most. I know he will never return to how he used to be so he will never love any of us as he used to, but its so impossibly hard to give up on him.

 

[Sarasa]

Hostess mode is the very pits isn't it @Lucy Young . My mother could put on a good show to doctors etc too. They only really realised what the problem was when mum had a melt down in the doctor's surgery and started accusing them of poisoning her because she'd got in a muddle with her meds and thought it was their fault. Things moved rather quickly after that.
I think contacting the support line 0333 150 3456 or dementia.connect@alzheimers.org.uk to talk through what you can do next is the way to go. You may need to step back and allow a crisis to happen which sounds awful, but could be the only way for your dad to get the help he needs.

 

[Jaded'n'faded]

Is there any way you could phone or write to this useless psychiatrist and put them straight about what's really happening with your father?

 

[Lucinda33]

Thank you. I will ring dementia connect. I have spoken to the mental health team where the psychiatrist works from. A lady rang me back and said that they class Dad's behaviour as "social" and they wouldn't use medication for the aggression at this stage, so really there is nothing I can do except call the police when he threatens us again !

 

[canary]

This all sounds absolutely like frontotemporal dementia, but, of course, I cannot diagnosis it. It is one of the hardest dementias to diagnose and I really dont think that a psychiatrist is the right person to do it as its not actually a mental health issue and psychiatrists are not aware of things like Host mode.

Im glad that the POA is being registered. When you get it back you do not have to use it straight away and I think at the moment, although it does sound to me as though he is losing capacity, you might be wise not to push it as he can sound so lucid. Eventually, though, dementia cannot be hidden and he will reach a stage where it will be obvious to everyone that he has dementia. At this point you will be grateful that you have POA.

I do wonder about the girlfriend and why she is willing to go along with his delusions. Being cynical I am wondering whether it is actually she who is stealing from him as she has access to his accounts. I dont think you will be able to prove this (and it may not be true), but keep that possibility in mind.

You might want to step back for a while. If you are not around it might deflect his anger away from you. Be prepared to pick up the pieces when it all falls apart and, in the meantime, do call the police if he calls around and threatens you. Sometimes it takes a crisis to get a person with dementia the help they need.

 

[Duggies-girl]

I agree with @canary the girlfriend may have dubious intentions, maybe not but quite possible.

 

[Shedrech]

hi @Lucinda33
personally, I would write to both the psychiatrist and the GP setting out exactly what you have written in your post, countering each point that your dad and/or his girlfriend made, plus what was said about his condition in the phone call, so that both have this in writing, not just a record of a phone call ... you might even ask if frontotemporal dementia has been considered and mention 'host mode' .... at least then it cannot be said that they weren't given all the facts

I agree with canary, keep a watching brief only and step back, hard as that will be ... something will happen that will make the situation clear, and you will be ready then to support your dad

 

[SEA SPRAY]

Hi @Lucinda33. Have you thought about recording your dad when he is in some of his rages? Then you have evidence of all his verbal abuse and threats.
Sounds like he, as well as his girlfriend, can be very manipulative and convincing.

 

[MartinWL]

This is going to be extremely difficult but as others have said you do need to gather as much hard evidence as possible - keeping a diary, making audio/video recordings whenever possible, gathering financial information to disprove claims made. I wonder (this is speculation) whether it might be possible apply to the Court of Protection for deputyship? That could not be overturned if granted. Of course you are up against the psychiatrist's report here so you'll need a good stack of hard evidence before you go down that road.