re Alan's sitter

[Helen33]

Alan has a lovely sitter on a Monday morning. I arranged with her last week that by the time she arrived this morning I would be out - she knows to let herself in.

When I returned home she announced how ill she had been feeling yesterday with a very bad cold and flu-like symptoms. I said that she was at the contagious stage and was worried that Alan might come down with it. I was very polite and calm but pointed out that if people with dementia contract viruses it can be extremely detrimental and difficult to properly recover from. I could see that she was upset and she said that if she didn't work she didn't get paid.

Do these agencies have policies about working whilst infectious?

Love

 

[jenniferpa]

They should do, but they probably don't. These agencies normally don't give sick pay (as you've found out) partly so that people don't call in sick. If they did call in sick, they almost certainly wouldn't have the staff to cover their commitments, so you might have come back and found no sitter at all: I've heard of that happening. I think you're going to have to be very specific about this - any symptoms of infectious diseases (even the common cold) and they are not to come, or they should wear masks or whatever you feel comfortable with. But if you don't tell them, it will happen again.

 

[christine_batch]

Dear Helen,

When Peter was at home and prone to chesty cold, I did inform the Agency not to send anyone who had a cold. These people who come to care for our loved ones should surely be aware of how vunerable they are?

Do hope everything is o.k.

Love from
Christine

 

[Grannie G]

That`s bad practice Helen.

The agency should know people with dementia are vulnerable when they go down with an infection and it should be policy that all staff report in if they re sick.

I suppose all care staff are part time and part time workers have always been unfairly treated, but that is no reason to spread infection to vulnerable people.

 

[Helen33]

Thanks

Thanks Jennifer, Christine and Sylvia. I will ring the agency tomorrow to make it clear. I do get annoyed that I have to do this - the agency has run for years and I would have thought that there were strong safeguards to protect the vulnerable.
It's doubly difficult for us because we also have a friend with terminal cancer and we cannot visit them with a risk of infection because it would more than likely be fatal.

Love

 

[Skye]

Dear Helen

I can understand your upset, and I know the danger of infections.

But I'm afaid what happened is a result of deficiencies in the care industry.

You had told the carer that you would be out when she arrived -- nothing wrong with that, I did it sometimes with John. BUT -- the agency may not have had anyone else available, and they would have been responsible if anything had happened to Alan if no-one had come.

Also, the agency has a contract to supply so many hours of care, and they would be breaching their contract if they didn't cover those hours.

The situation I'm afraid is similar in care homes. The carers have contracts for so many hours a week. They can pick up extra shiftes outside these hours, but if they are off sick they don't get paid. As a result, they work when they should really be off sick.

One of john's carers is to have an op in January to repair the cartilege in her knee. She has had to ask for two weeks holiday. She's unlikely to be fully fit after two weeks, but that's all the holidays she can take. She's a single parent with a mortgage, and needs the money.

Believe me, I'm not condoning what happened, but the system needs to change.

I do hope Alan hasn't picked anything up, I know how ill he was last time.

Love,

 

[lesmisralbles]

Dear helen

When I returned home she announced how ill she had been feeling yesterday with a very bad cold and flu-like symptoms. I said that she was at the contagious stage and was worried that Alan might come down with it.

The point I am making.
Rons chill/cold has knocked him for six this last week or two.
We do not need infection coming into our homes.
As if we do not have enough to worry about.
But, sadly, I think it was me/I ?? that brought the infection into Ron.
But, I am not going to become all Howard Hughes about it.
As my Grannie said, a peck of dirt hurt no one.
Barb X & Ron ZZ

 

[Helen33]

Hi Hazel

Thank you. I did think that it would have been awful had she not turned up at all and Alan was left alone for such a long period unbeknown to me

but the system needs to change.

You are so right. I really cannot understand why people who do such a difficult and demanding job are so poorly paid.
Love

 

[Helen33]

Hello Barb

But, sadly, I think it was me/I ?? that brought the infection into Ron.

Yes but you had no choice Barb because Ron's care is totally dependant on you.

Whilst I sympathise and empathise with the carer (I am self-employed and if I don't work I don't get paid) I feel that Alan's care is the primary issue. I take full responsibility not to knowingly visit our friend with terminal cancer if there is the slightest risk of infection. I just want the carer's who come here to take responsibility not to put Alan's health at risk. If I get a virus there is not much that can be done about it.

I hope you are feeling a bit better now Barb because I know that you've been very poorly.

Love

 

[Sandye]

Hi, Helen,

I sincerely hope Alan didn't get any infection from the sitter, although I understand why some people feel they have to work (when the alternative is no pay).

It's such a shame we have to worry about things like colds and flu this time of year.

 

[JPG1]

An interesting and relevant link:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7696013.stm

.

 

[Helen33]

Thanks Sandye and JPG1

I phoned the agency this morning and asked if they had a policy and they do. I explained that I was not putting in a complaint but that I felt it needed to be clear to all sitters coming here that they are not to come if they know they are in the infectious stages of a cold/flu or any other virus. She said they covered this area specifically during training and that each sitter should be aware that they must not knowingly put a vulnerable person they are caring for at risk. It was a mutually respectful conversation and I now feel much happier.

Thanks for all your support.

Love

 

[Tender Face]

As illustration - in mum's last few weeks in NH there was a D&V outbreak ..... the staff who didn't go down with it were working 12 hour shifts for days and/or nights on end .... (dedication not lack of pay I would like to think) ..... residents who showed symptoms were 'quarantined' as best could be for their own welfare ... 'cross-infection' controls were brought in amongst the various units and public areas ...... but throughout the home (residential, nursing, dementia and EMI) I was one of few visitors allowed in (had to be sanctioned by the NH Manager given mum's prognosis) .. ...... with extra special measures (e.g. antiseptic hand washing etc at every opportunity - not just entry and exit) every time I moved from one room to another ......

The alternative was - every member of staff - or even every 'necessary' visitor - was asked to stay away.... where would mum and other residents have been then? As more staff 'went down' more agency staff had to be drafted in (something the home prided itself on not having to do) - who knew what viruses they might be bringing in?

The problem with 'infectious stages' of any virus / infection is that we often don't know we have been 'contagious' until after the event and usually once symptoms have revealed themselves, we have probably already spread our germs, whether cold/flu or D&V viral or other infections ....

Helen, I am not negating your concerns ... but wrapping up in cotton wool when 'too late is the cry' is not the answer surely? Else, don't have sitters 'just in case' ... who knows what germs they might be fostering or festering? I would rather have had someone sneeze over mum when I couldn't be there than not be there at all ......

There has to be some balance about risk taking and care? Had the staff of mum's NH all walked out 'just in case' ... well ..... come on ......

Karen, x

 

[connie]

Have to agree with Karen.
When the Norovirus broke out in Lionel's care home in January this year all visitors were asked to stay away.

The staff were going down like ninepins, and agency staff - when you could get them - brought in.

I went in every day for a week. 8.00am to 6pm. Like Karen I had to take all necessary precautions when going from his room to residents kitchen etc. (Dining rooms and main kitchen were off limits).

My concerns were that, because residents were being isolated 'just in case'. he would be on his own too long.
Nothing is perfect unfortunately.

 

[Helen33]

Hello Karen

However, Alan is not in a communal setting. The Agency were very specific about their policy on this matter (very strict) and it was well covered in their comprehensive training. I am not having to sort out the world with regard to these issues, I am currently responsible for our little corner of the world. I think it is reasonable, and so does the Agency, that no one should come if they know that they are coming down with a cold or flu - thereby putting a vulnerable adult at risk. I am aware there are much wider issues but it takes me all my time to deal with these issues let alone wider ones. I will have to cross those bridges when I get to them.

I've just read this post and it does sound "huffy" but that's because I've had so many things to deal with today and I am really tired. I do appreciate your support and I know that you can cope with "huffy" Thanks.

Love

 

[Grannie G]

I think there is a very big difference between caring at home and being cared for in a NH.

However skeletal the staff are, illness never reduces the staff to one. In addition there are domestic staff to cover shopping, cooking and cleaning. If the worst comes to the worst cover can be bought in, by way of agency staff.

Caring at home means the one person attends to all areas of housekeeping and caring. Infection can be avoided if people do not bring it in. The carer should have phoned Helen before she went out to say she was not fit for work.

 

[Helen33]

Hello connie

My concerns were that, because residents were being isolated 'just in case'. he would be on his own too long.

I can understand your worries but Lionel might have ended up on his own a lot longer if they hadn't taken the precautions!

Anyway with Alan's sitter, it wasn't just in case. She said she started to feel ill the day before and by the time she came to sit with Alan she was really ill with flu like symptoms This isn't just in case, this is happening and a real risk. I wouldn't have given these things a second thought before until Alan had that last virus and I learnt from fellow TPers just how badly people with dementia can be permanently affected by such things. Alan didn't fully recover from the last virus. It was a learning curve and I admit that I am alerted to the risks to Alan now and want to do what I can to try to prevent it. I will treat his condition with the same respect that I treat our friend with cancer.

I do apologise if I have got the wrong end of the stick - I'm huffy today.

Love

 

[Helen33]

Thank you Sylvia. I think it is as simple as that. She should have phoned me.

Love

 

[Skye]

Helen, I am not negating your concerns ... but wrapping up in cotton wool when 'too late is the cry' is not the answer surely?

I don't think Helen is advocating 'Wrapping up in cotton wool'.

John is an extreme example of the possible result of an infection on someone with dementia. Alan has not long recovered from a serious infection, happily not with the devastating permanent effect that we had, but serious enough to create great anxiety.

It is not the same situation as a care home. There, there has to be cover, one way or another. In Helen's case, I'm sure she would prefer to cancel her own appointments rather than subject Alan to any risk.

 

[Helen33]

Hello Hazel

but serious enough to create great anxiety.

I believe that Alan never did get back to 'normal'. He improved greatly but not fully. I do believe that I am the one ultimately responsible for Alan's care and the sitting service is just that (a service) provided to enhance my life. It is there primarily for me - not Alan. If Alan is knowingly put at risk then it is no longer a service to me but a dis-service. You are right therefore that I should have been informed and it would be my total responsibility to sort out my day however difficult that might have been. It would have been a lot less difficult than having to deal with the difficulties that might arise from Alan unnecessarily becoming ill.

Love