Proving your identity

jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
39,448
I have been reviewing my mother's savings over the past few months, and have identified various savings schemes that might be better for her. However I have come across a stumbling block. Most of these require evidence of address (not a problem) and evidence of identity (definitely a problem). Actually, proving address might be a problem down the line: she currently still owns a property, so there are bills related to that, but when that's sold, the nursing home will be her address, and no utility bills will be forthcoming on that basis. Anyway: proof of identity. They require a driving license, or a passport, neither of which she has. Online banks are particularly bad about this, but there are building societies that also have this sort of restriction. Anyone have any ideas?

Jennifer
 

Nebiroth

Registered User
Aug 20, 2006
3,511
Go in person to a branch and ask to see their extended list of "acceptable alternatives". This has a list of documents they will accept and is usually more comprehensive than the ones they issue as customer guidelines on websites etc.

I have come across the same problem in that I have neither passport or drivers license, and the utilities aren't in my name either!

But unfortunately, the Money Laundering laws leave it up to the individual bank to decide what are "reasonable steps" and many of them err on the side of caution in case they are investigated and found to be too slack in their requirements.

However, the extended list usually contains a few alternatives, usually something like a tax return or original benefits letter.

In the past I'd have said get a passport for future occasions, but soon getting a passport will involve going to an interview and getting asked a lot of questions to "confirm you are who you say you are" which is obviously out of the question for someone with dementia.
 
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Natashalou

Registered User
Mar 22, 2007
426
london
isnt this

an EPA issue again? I have this for my mum who like yours, has no photo ID like passport or driving licence, but i just deal with all her money on her behalf and the banks are all fine, when I registered my EPA when it came back they also sent a helpful guidance sheet for me to show the bank if I had a problem but I havent had.
When we were in the stage of using it but it hadnt been registered one or two people asked for photo ID, and we used her bus pass, but we had to do this in conjuction with her birth cert and this was fine.
On the side of the utility bill presumably the council can verify she is resposible for the council tax? Or her medical card ought to suffice?
 

sue38

Registered User
Mar 6, 2007
10,854
51
Wigan, Lancs
Hi Jennifer,

We also have to check people's identities to check that they are not money laundering. Our rules say that we must have proof of their date of birth and proof of their address. A passport is proof of their date of birth and driving licence or utility bill proof of their address. Once we have this we can be sure that the person is not a drug dealer laundering their dirty money though us, as drug dealers do not hold passports, driving licences...:rolleyes: :mad:

In fact it is older people (not drug barons) who have difficulties with providing the ID the rules say we must see, as many do not have current driving licences or passports.

From what you say you can prove your Mum's address at the moment, but date of birth is a problem. We accept medical cards, but many people do not have them or have lost them. We accept a letter from GP confirming date of birth.

I'm afraid it's one of those areas where we are no longer allowed to use common sense :(

Sue
 

jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
39,448
Hmm I can do Birth Certificate (which seems pretty pointless as it's in her Maiden Name, but I seem to remember that's what we used when she sold her last property) or a health card. Even the post office (aka national savings) have difficulty with this. It's not an EPA issue (yet) because I haven't activated that yet. However, even if I had, if you look at some on the on-line savings banks, you'll find they do not accept EPAs! Now there was a case with one on-line bank where they were forced to back-track by the disability commission, but it's defintiely the case that some of them haven't got the message. I han't realised that we were proving date of birth (it's normally phrased as "proving identity") so that is a starting point. Thank you Sue!

Jennifer
 

sue38

Registered User
Mar 6, 2007
10,854
51
Wigan, Lancs
Birth certificates are not normally acceptable as anyone can obtain a copy of anyone else's birth, marriage or death certificate as these are a matter of public record.

Sue
 

jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
39,448
Really? I checked back and yes, she did use her BC for the house sale. I thouight it was odd as the time, because this 88 year old piece of paper didn't really prove anything, and as I said, it was in a different name. When you say health card, you mean the one that lists your GP and your NI number correct?
 

sue38

Registered User
Mar 6, 2007
10,854
51
Wigan, Lancs
jenniferpa said:
Really? I checked back and yes, she did use her BC for the house sale. I thouight it was odd as the time, because this 88 year old piece of paper didn't really prove anything, and as I said, it was in a different name. When you say health card, you mean the one that lists your GP and your NI number correct?
Oops, the solicitors shouldn't have accepted a birth certificate as proof of identity. :eek: We have a case at the moment where our client's husband has presented his girlfriend as his wife and sold matrimonial home. He would have known wife's date and place of birth and so would have been able to obtain her birth certificate. Not sure if that's the ID she would have presented, but you can see the problem.

If we are acting under a POA or EPA we are requried to see ID for both donee and attorney.

Health cards are not often presented so I can't remember what details they have. I remember years ago I had one with my name and DOB on. No idea where it is now.

Sue
 

jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
39,448
sue38 said:
Oops, the solicitors shouldn't have accepted a birth certificate as proof of identity. :eek: We have a case at the moment where our client's husband has presented his girlfriend as his wife and sold matrimonial home. He would have known wife's date and place of birth and so would have been able to obtain her birth certificate. Not sure if that's the ID she would have presented, but you can see the problem.

If we are acting under a POA or EPA we are requried to see ID for both donee and attorney.

Health cards are not often presented so I can't remember what details they have. I remember years ago I had one with my name and DOB on. No idea where it is now.

Sue
Yikes. Mind you wouldn't the heath card be equally able to be misused? I thought that's why these companies were asking for photo ID, which is a darn nuisance.
 

noelphobic

Registered User
Feb 24, 2006
3,452
Liverpool
jenniferpa said:
Really? I checked back and yes, she did use her BC for the house sale. I thouight it was odd as the time, because this 88 year old piece of paper didn't really prove anything, and as I said, it was in a different name. When you say health card, you mean the one that lists your GP and your NI number correct?

I don't think your 'health' card shows your National Insurance number. I think it is your national health service number, which is different. You usually only get a National Insurance number when you are about 15 or 16. Interestingly, the new style 'credit card' National Insurance number cards can only be replaced once if you lose it. I happen to know my National Insurance number off by heart. :eek:

I have to do a Money Laundering awareness course every year. Watching paint dry is much more interesting :D
 

jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
39,448
But it is the one that shows your GP, is that correct? Because I know where that is (amazingly). I still don't know how it would prove your identity though: I realise that it's not easily obtainable, but still...
 

DeborahBlythe

Registered User
Dec 1, 2006
9,222
jenniferpa said:
It's not an EPA issue (yet) because I haven't activated that yet. However, even if I had, if you look at some on the on-line savings banks, you'll find they do not accept EPAs! Now there was a case with one on-line bank where they were forced to back-track by the disability commission, but it's defintiely the case that some of them haven't got the message. Jennifer
BBC Radio 4 Moneybox had an item about this on Saturday April 21st. The transcript of the programme is available at http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/programmes/money_box/transcripts/07_04_21.pdf

(See pages 6-10) The Disability Rights Commission representative suggests in this item complaining about the difficulty in accessing accounts, citing the Disability Discrimination Act, using normal complaints procedures, and then, if no progress, going to them for advice, support.
 

noelphobic

Registered User
Feb 24, 2006
3,452
Liverpool
jenniferpa said:
But it is the one that shows your GP, is that correct? Because I know where that is (amazingly). I still don't know how it would prove your identity though: I realise that it's not easily obtainable, but still...
I'm not sure whether it does show your GP or not. I thought you got it soon after birth and most of us change our GPs a few times. I might have my son's somewhere so will let you know if I find it.

I did try to find out something today about alternative ids to driving licences and passports but couldn't access the relevant infomation. There may be someone I can have a word with tomorrow so will let you know.

If you have decided on the best place for your mum's savings it could be worth you having a word with someone there. Each institution may have slightly different requirements for acceptable id.
 

noelphobic

Registered User
Feb 24, 2006
3,452
Liverpool
Deborah Blythe said:
BBC Radio 4 Moneybox had an item about this on Saturday April 21st. The transcript of the programme is available at http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/programmes/money_box/transcripts/07_04_21.pdf

(See pages 6-10) The Disability Rights Commission representative suggests in this item complaining about the difficulty in accessing accounts, citing the Disability Discrimination Act, using normal complaints procedures, and then, if no progress, going to them for advice, support.
don't quite see how disability comes into identity requirements? :confused:
 

noelphobic

Registered User
Feb 24, 2006
3,452
Liverpool
is this any help?

We must obtain proof of your identity in accordance with Money Laundering Regulations, which require all financial institutions to identify each of their customers before they open an account. In most cases our electronic checks avoid the need for you to provide paper means of identification. However, in some circumstances we may need to ask you to provide proof of your identity.

If you apply online, and we require confirmation of your identity, we will email you and then write to you with details of what to do.

If you want to apply in branch, it is a good idea to take your proof of identity with you. This will prevent you having to return to the branch at a later date. You will need two forms of identification to apply.

Please note: If our electronic checks have suggested that we require additional means of identification, we will not be able to process your application until such time as these documents have been received.

For a full list of acceptable forms of identification, see Customer Identification.
http://www.alliance-leicester.co.uk/savings/index.asp?page=customer-id

Why do we need evidence of your identity?
To ensure we comply with the UK's Money Laundering Regulations, we will need you to provide evidence of your identity before we process your request to open an account (even though you may already hold an account with us). In the case of a joint application, identification for each applicant must be supplied.

Certified copies of the following documents can be accepted. The same document cannot be used to confirm both your identity and your address. We need one item from Group A to confirm your identity and one item from Group B to confirm your address.



GROUP A - Documents that identify you
Full Valid UK Driving Licence - Photograph or old style
Provisional valid Driving Licence - Photograph style only
Full valid UK signed Passport
Full valid Overseas signed Passport
Letter from the Department for Work and Pensions confirming eligibility to State Benefits
Letter from HM Revenue & Customs which shows a National Insurance Number dated within last 12 months (not P45/P60/P11D)
National Health Service Medical Card (UNDER 18's ONLY)
UK Birth Certificate (UNDER 18's ONLY)


GROUP B - Documents that confirm your address
Full Valid UK Driving Licence - Photograph or old style
Provisional valid Driving Licence - Photograph style only
Utility Bill less than 6 months old - including Telephone/Gas/Electricity/Water Bill (not mobile phone)
Council Tax Bill/Payment Book - Valid for Current year
Bank or Building Society Statement less than 3 months old showing customer activity
Letter from the Department for Work and Pensions confirming eligibility to State Benefits
Letter from HM Revenue & Customs which shows a National Insurance Number dated within the last 12 months (not P45/P60/P11D)
National Health Service Medical Card (UNDER 18’s ONLY)
Obviously this is just for that particular financial institution, but it will give you an idea, hopefully.
 

jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
39,448
Thanks a lot Brenda.

I think the disability commision comes into it when a bank refuses to allow the holder of an EPA to open a new (as opposed to accessing an old) account. On the face of it, it's discrimatory against those people who because of disability (in this case dementia) need another person to manage their financial affairs.

Jennifer
P.S. I hope the brain worked out OK today :)
 

noelphobic

Registered User
Feb 24, 2006
3,452
Liverpool
jenniferpa said:
Thanks a lot Brenda.

I think the disability commision comes into it when a bank refuses to allow the holder of an EPA to open a new (as opposed to accessing an old) account. On the face of it, it's discrimatory against those people who because of disability (in this case dementia) need another person to manage their financial affairs.

Jennifer
P.S. I hope the brain worked out OK today :)
Oh right, I understand now about the disability. I was fixated on the id thing! One thing I found interesting about that list is that birth certificates and medical cards are only accepted from under 18s. I assume that is because under 18s are less likely to have passports and drivers licences - although children do have to have their own passports now. My 18 year old carries his passport everywhere to ensure he will get served in pubs. He didn't like carrying it and was going to get a provisional licence purely for id. However, he has now decided he wants driving lessons anyway.

The brain has been doing OK today. Bit tired now though!